Outsourcing Server Mgmt. - Do you and where from?

[Brian S]

The subject is the question. Do you trust your servers to an outsourced firm? If so, what services do they maintain, what's included, and how much do you spend? If you're really happy with your provider, I'll gladly take referrals here or via PM. This is an avenue I'm looking in to.

Thanks,

Brian

[Aussie Bob]

Looked into it in the past, but I just couldn't trust a company, with all their employees etc, with root access to servers. Yes, I'm rather paranoid. :eek:

[Brian S]

So do you hire locally? If so, what should I estimate budgeting?

Thanks,

Brian

[dynamicnet]

Greetings:

1. There are a number of companies that provide outsourced server management.

Mouse and his team from http://www.easyservermanagement.com/

Huck and his team from http://www.rackaid.com/

Ryan from http://www.rfxnetworks.com/

Steve from http://www.rack911.com/

You should check out each one by email as well as telephone.

Do not -- I repeat do not -- just do it by email.

Body language makes up most of our communication; and at least by phone you get tone of voice, and you can get a feeling for whether or not you can trust the company.

Prior to signing any contract, do ask for references; and check those by phone as well (the above companies have decent reputations; however, I would not be surprised by other companies who give you references whose email addresses go back to them <g>).

2. Fees can vary based on whether you are contracting for one time projects or recurring work; written service level agreements which have guaranteed response times along with payback to you for quality work not performed can also be an impact to the fees paid.

I cannot speak for any of the companies listed above, but I know we have an easier time quoting for work when we are given examples of the type of work required.

Just saying "I need a server managed" often does not provide the information necessary to provide an accurate quote.

3. Do ask how long various tasks take to perform; and then gauge that back to the rate or fixed fee quoted. Does the hourly rate make sense? If something sounds too good to be true, it might be too good to be true.

For example, I believe it would be fair to state that doing a good job securing a server that was never worked on (by the company or individual doing the securing) would take two to three hours doing the work by hand.

NOTE: Yes, stuff can be automated; but then how much is missed in terms of red flags or warnings because of pure copy and paste or lack of quality checks and reviews through the process.

If some one is charging $50 to secure the server, and they tell you it will take three hours, then they are making $16.67 per hour.

That may sound like a lot, but a system administrator who has 5+ years of experience typically commands a starting (key word) salary of $50,000 per year plus full time benefits including sick time, personal time, vacation time, 401K (or comparable), etc.

That often adds up to a value of $67,000 a year ($50,000 base plus benefits et all) which translates into $32.05 per hour.

And given that most consultants are not 100% billable in terms of their time; a consultant is often told to take the yearly rate they desire and divide by 1,000 hours instead of 2,080 (40 x 52).

So then you have the full time server admin – working for themselves – who needs to pull in at least $75,000 (benefits are more expensive if you are just you, yourself and you) to make a similar salary they made when working for some one else.

And that $75,000 divided by the 1,000 billable hours translates to $75 per hour.

So that two to three hour server hardening, in the very least, should run $150 to $225 (if not more considering they may have a lot more than 5 years experience).

4. Lastly, in terms of hiring some one, if you are not a tech you may want to have a local technology firm (check with your local chamber of commerce) sit in on you during the interview process to help you weed out the fakers who talk the talk, but don’t walk the talk.

Thank you.

[beley]

Don't forget www.wemanageservers.com

I hear they're very good :)

[AffordableHOST]

We outsourced admin services for a long time - it never worked out very well. We did our research, took advice from happy customers, had a 'good feel' for the admin or company...we always ended up sorry. To be honest, I don't think all of the problems were due to incompetance or anything wrong with the other party. Its just not always easy to admin servers remotely...or when you have a bunch of other companies you are doing admin work for. We have had all in-house admins now for a little over a year and the difference is night and day...MUCH better.

While we pay a bit more for in-house admins - I think the extra cost has more than paid for itself in happier customers (less server hiccups) and less frustration on my part.

--Tina

[dynamicnet]

Greetings Tina:

Understood, and we've discussed your experiences in the past.

However, there are companies who are able to manage their clients, their growth, and provide prompt service, bill ethically without being a lawyer about it, et all.

While I do maintain outsourcing to the right companies can be a good experience, I also agree with you completely that the right in-house staff often times will do hundreds of % better than outsourced.

Thank you.

P.S. Also, not that it matters for this discussion and acknowledging the fact you now have staff.. if my memory is correct you never used our services <smile>.

[Aussie Bob]

Originally posted by AffordableHOST:

While we pay a bit more for in-house admins - I think the extra cost has more than paid for itself in happier customers (less server hiccups) and less frustration on my part.
I agree. HTTPme only used in-house admins, although they were remotely based etc. Although it can be tricky to diagnose hardware issues from a remote location, but it's not impossible. Our admins knew their stuff, and would work closely with the NAC admins on network/hardware issues. You knew that if a server kept dropping after a reboot, chances are there's a fan that's faulty. Happened a bit when we were using 1U Dual XEON servers, as the 1U case doesn't really allow much natural ventilation.

[Brian S]

Aussie and Tina:

Do your admins actually work on-site (either at your business or at the location of the server) or do you have admins that work from another location (i.e. their home)?

Thanks,

Brian

[Aussie Bob]

Originally posted by Brian S:

Aussie and Tina:

Do your admins actually work on-site (either at your business or at the location of the server) or do you have admins that work from another location (i.e. their home)?
HTTPme admins were (and still are) remotely based from their homes. I believe Tina has admins in their office etc. Having physical access and admins next to the servers is no doubt an advantage for troubleshooting hardware issues. But most server admin work is remote, unless your admins want to work infront of the rack. :)

[Brian S]

How then do you go through the process of choosing a tech? I mean, what's the difference, trust wise, of hiring someone who you've never met to do work for you, versus a company that provides support services? Or am I reading you wrong and you have actually met or previously knew the tech you hired?

Thanks,

Brian

[Aussie Bob]

Originally posted by Brian S:

How then do you go through the process of choosing a tech? I mean, what's the difference, trust wise, of hiring someone who you've never met to do work for you, versus a company that provides support services? Or am I reading you wrong and you have actually met or previously knew the tech you hired?
I have personally never met any of the HTTPme admins, but I knew them previously from forums and such. Trust is a huge issue, no doubt, and there's always a risk when you bring a new tech into the fold, and they have root access etc. The hosting game is full of risks, and that's just one risk that you calculate etc.

Please note, I'm not speaking for HTTPme now. I am speaking as the previous owner of HTTPme. :)

[Brian S]

Oh, you sold it? Whatcha into now? Got a WHT thread that summarizes so I can get updated? I'm obviously out of the loop. :)

Thanks,

Brian

[Aussie Bob]

Originally posted by Brian S:

Oh, you sold it? Whatcha into now? Got a WHT thread that summarizes so I can get updated? I'm obviously out of the loop. :)
You didn't get the memo? :D

Yep, sold up and got out with my pride and reputation in almost perfect condition. :D

Currently working on the preparation stages of building the family home, and will decide where to go when the house is done. :)

[dynamicnet]

Greetings Brian S:

The best way, in my opinion, to get to trust a remote service is to meet with them (if possible), and if you cannot meet face to face, then call.

You should call several times over a period of time. If your primary calls are to sales, ask if you can talk with an engineer.

Share some of your concerns, some problems you may have had in the past, etc. Get a feel for their personalities, the way they treat you on the phone, and whether or not they sound like they can handle the type of work you need them to do.

After several phone calls, if you are still comfortable, ask for references. Then call those references.

In terms of hiring in-house, I would recommend calling your local chamber of commerce to recommend a network engineering company who might work with you in helping with interviews.

In-house salary for some one with 5+ years of experience generally starts at $50,000 per year plus benefits (vacation, sick, personal, retirement, etc.).

Outsourced generally ranges from $75 per hour to $250 per hour for those in the U.S.

I would be leery of those in the U.S. charging $50 or less if they have 5+ years experience; that typically means they have not done their business home work. And it could mean they only do the work on the side (which can be good or bad depending on your needs).

Thank you.

[Chicken]

Originally posted by Brian S:

Oh, you sold it? Whatcha into now? Got a WHT thread that summarizes so I can get updated? I'm obviously out of the loop. :)
Brian, even better, a HHO thread ;) :D
http://www.hosthideout.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7732&highlight=HTTPme