Legal Run-ins - Thoughts?

[MrManager]

I have been reading about more than one incident where someone was being sued over their name, content or copyright infringement of some sort.

While in many cases I personally believe that some types of legal trouble are just not worth it and can be easily prevented or averted by a quick and willing compliance (not admitting guilt), it has me curious if anyone here has ever had legal threats placed against their them or their business? If so, how did you handle it? I've never experienced this myself, but I shudder at the thought of seeing a big fat envelope from the law office of "Someone, Someone & Someone" at my doorstep and wondering what it will mean for me and my family if someone had the guns and were out to get revenge or to make my company into an example.

Puts my guts in a wrench just thinking about it.

[thei]

Deny existence, move to Cuba.

[thebyp2]

or send the boys round :D

[Andrew]

Nothing to fear in legal action.

Make sure you're incorporated (best defence you can have) and sleep easy.

Most legal action doesnt result in anything serious (unless of course you have done something serious). Most just result in alot of paperwork and tend to be annoying more then anything else.

[MrManager]

Originally posted by Andrew:

Nothing to fear in legal action.

Make sure you're incorporated (best defence you can have) and sleep easy.

Most legal action doesnt result in anything serious (unless of course you have done something serious). Most just result in alot of paperwork and tend to be annoying more then anything else.

I like your approach.

I haven't the foggiest idea what made me think up this subject, but it came to me during a meeting one day here in one of those "what if" scenarios we sometimes discuss. Good or bad, we talk about all sorts of sample scenarios and this one stuck with the entire staff all day it seemed. They all really wondered... "What WOULD we do?"

We're not yet incorporated, but while we expect to approach that bridge in the not too distant future, the topic was pretty sobering regardless. I sort of wished I didn't bring it up.

Anyone care to share a 'close call' if they've never actually had the pleasure of being served? How did your staff (or boss) react or perhaps surprise you?

[tranz]

Well, let me tell you about my most recent one.

Client has 2 dedicated servers with me fully managed. Now when I say fully managed, OS Patches, Firewall management, Assistance with problem apps, 24/7 monitoring ect. What it is not is a full time sys admin / eng for an extra $80 per month.

Clients server 2 does SEO of some adult sites, but we dont allow them to host the content on the server. Client about a month ago fired an employee who had written some backend code. Apparently this employee wasnt happy.

Client calls me freaking out that the server is down. Nothing on my end is beeping like crazy, I webmin into the box. Services are getting hammered.

Box is getting hit with a Syn Flood attack. Run etherreal and packets are just whizzing buy.

Made some adjustments and it seemed to calm down. Forward to a couple of days later. Client calls screaming that server is down again. Now due to his people rebooting the server over and over in an attempt to bring it back up the server is getting corrupted file system errors now. OH GREAT!

Server wont even reboot remotely and I had to go over to the DC two days in a row.

I suggested that the client take the server off-line long enough for us to find a better solution for him, client of course says NO.

I went out and bought a $4000 IDS appliance, to protect not only this client but all the rest of them, who are not being attacked I might add.

Client wants me to give him another server, move all his data, FIX his box and then move everything back. OH, did I forget to tell you he has 225 IPs from 8 different class C's.

Well, I am not about to order a new server just for him to use it for a week. We dont keep full servers on hand as we offer custom solutions, hence no extra servers around.

Client calls at 2am. He wants the server back-up and now!!

Due to the file system errors I suggested that I move everything to drive 2 and that I format and reload the OS ect, at least it would have a stable file system. Client agin says no, and starts to cuss me out.

I am getting to my point trust me...

I tried to be the nicest guy in the world, the client then says well i am paying for ect ect. he then decides that screaming at me will get things to magicly work.

i then tell him that he is on a month to month contract at this point and that I have put in at least 40 hours of work into just his servers since he has become a client. More then my other clients combined. I told him that if it was a hardware issue that i would own up to it and replace whatever was needed.
he said that wasnt good enough to do something now!! I told him that he isnt my only client and that I have bent over backwards for him. He then says that due to the loss of business that he is going to call his attorney, and that just because we are incorporated doesnt save me from them not taking my house, my car and anything else he needs to to gain back what he lost.

I started laughing at him and told him to read the contract that he signed, TWICE one for each server. That we are held liable for nothing and that he can gain nothing from us. As the server was working and so was the network.

He then says "your a family man, you have a daughter, you have a new wife and they need you to be around" !!!!!!

That is taking it personal and isnt needed.

So, to wrap things up i called the attorney the next morning and fully documented the conversation. nothing has happened and the client wants to add a 3rd server, LOL. Partner says it is up to me at this point if I want to keep him or not.

Being incorporated we are personaly ptorected.

[Andrew]

:rofl:

Tranz, that is an all too familiar story....

The words "Im gonna sue" & "I'll call my lawyer and take everything you've got" are used FAR too often.

These are hollow threats.

Personally, I would keep this customer, they have now completely discredited themselves and would not have the cahones to make idle threats again.

Simply speaking, you wont have a hard time keep him under control now, cause essentially you called his bluff..

Anyway, im sure you'll be pleased with your decision, regardless of which direction you take...

Great story by the way - made me smile :D

[tranz]

lol, sorry it was so long BTW.

[Dimester]

He then says "your a family man, you have a daughter, you have a new wife and they need you to be around" !!!!!!

I would not keep this customer. I would give him notice to find another provider. If this is really what he said he could be arrested for making a criminal threat. He is not the type of customer I would want.

[tranz]

Sorry, didnt mean to hijack thread..

New Client UpDate...
I brought his server home with me so that I could personaly work on it.

I have upgraded the kernel, upgraded rysnc, installed snort , port sentry and chkroot. The box is totaly protected and clean now.

I was going to take the box back over to the DC tonight at around 11pm. once again doing this myself. My wife called and said there is something up with the Honda CRV and that she doesnt feel comfortable driving it. Ok, I alerted the client and told him that I will have to attend to this and that I will take the box over to the DC tomorrow.

I got a "We are going to have to talk tomorrow line"

Maybe he will leave on his own accord. LOL man, it just seems that you cant make anybody happy, no matter how much you try.

[MrManager]

=)

Where do you people come from. A lawsuit is threatened and you laugh! I think that takes far bigger 'cahones' than I have. I don't think cahones that big even run in my family. =)

But you know, I think it is due largely because I have 2 young kids (5 and 2) and a great wife. One kid is autistic and the other is Daddy's baby girl so I'm inclined to protect them at all cost - even if it may mean taking jokes as serious. I guess that sort of blows any chance of the "bring it on" approach for me, but you are mostly likely right when you say that most threats are hollow- mostly intended for effect.

Fortunately I am prepared for legal threats, but it will not come without a severe beating from my wife while she is yelling "I TOLD YOU CALHOST WAS A DUMB IDEA!"

She knows she loves it though. =)

[Andrew]

:rofl:


Adam, got to understand that most lawsuits are unsubstantiated. I have been sued and have sued - several times. After the first couple, you just accept it as normal business practice.

In each case, both parties thought they were right. In the end, mutually agreeable resolutions were found. Large dollar suits really arent that common. As a hosting business, make sure youre incorporated and make sure you have proper SLA's and TOS's written up (preferably by a lawyer, so if there are any holes in them, the lawyer is responsible :D )

[thebyp2]

Originally posted by Andrew:

...Adam, got to understand that most lawsuits are unsubstantiated...

just look at sco!

[MrManager]

Originally posted by thebyp2:

just look at sco!

Indeed lol :)

I'm sure Martha would argue a similar point against the DOJ. =)

[Chet]

I was once served legal papers by Coke-Cola for running Coke-Cola ads they paid for.

Yeah, you read that right. Go figure.

I have a folder of legal threats and a much smaller faller of filed paperwork. Personally, I kind of enjoy it all, but then I have a family full of lawyers, so when shmucks (who actually advertised here) try and get me to do something under the threat of - it will cost you a lot of money if we sue- i just laugh.

My sister is a b*tch and she is just begging to get called into legal action. My other lawyer relatives are a little more levelheaded, but I can't wait for the day I get to unleash my sister on someone. Add to that my friend from college who is an IP lawyer and that some ex-EFF lawyers have offered their services to me for free if I am battling certain spammy types - i expose spammers and they like to huff and puff.


Chet