How could you possibly NEED all of those resources!?!

[Placer14]

I see requests for 2-5Gb of HD space and 100+ Gb of bandwidth. If you're one of these people that is making one of these requests, PLEASE enlighten me as far as how you could EVER need all of those resources.

Unless your site is an image repository, or mp3 server, game server, etc...but 100+ Gb?? I'm not exaggerating.

I seriously don't understand how everyone has such over exaggerated ideas on what is needed for web communcations. *sigh* Someone fill me in.

[tommy]

100GB bandwidth monthly is nothing lol check out www.tuoithantien.com/forum/ he's my brother and he has a dedicated at servermatrix.com and today is only the 22rd and he aready used up 800GB bandwidth.. Because he gets alot of hits daily.. and alot of user download mp3 from his server.

[oswazi]

wow..smart way to rat on your brother...

anyhow...yea...streaming video servers and real media take a chunk of processing power as well..

[tranz]

My favorite, the other guy is offering 1200G of transfer can you beat his price, LOL NO!!

[alex042]

You never know how much porn someone has sitting around, but if they have that much, they might as well stick it somewhere and make a few bucks. ;)

[Chicken]

You'll often see providers asking, "Do you really need 2GB of space?" -which I personally think is a good thing. Often times the answer is, "No, I need 50MB." -heh. Ask, sometimes they do, but most often they don't.

[Placer14]

I understand the situations where you have a special need for this much bandwidth but people in the requests section requesting 70-100+ Gb of bandwidth? AND THEN THEY GET IT!!! FOR FREE!!

Not only is this making the industry that much mroe cutthroat but it also promotes overselling and requiring reasonable hosts to do the same or come up with other perks to maintain any competition in the online arena.

(BTW, sorry I meant to put this rant in the forum one level up...)

Glacing through the requests list, She-Bear is a webhost's dream customer. That's EASY why she got so many replies, not to mention the number of PMs I'm sure she received.

[Chicken]

Originally posted by Placer14:

AND THEN THEY GET IT!!! FOR FREE!!
That's the kicker ain't it? ;)
Not only is this making the industry that much mroe cutthroat but it also promotes overselling and requiring reasonable hosts to do the same or come up with other perks to maintain any competition in the online arena.
Such is life in business. If you sold dedicated servers for $400 that included 50GB of transfer, you'd be complaining about the RackShacks and Managed.com's offering much more... for much less.

[Placer14]

Yea, i know. I refuse to participate in "Requests Forums". These customers are generally the ones that want the world and then don't know what to do with it. Afterwhich they bother you for 2 months on how to get everything going and quit because they got a better deal elsewhere.

yea, this is extreme but not so far from reality. I'll stick to local markets....this way I can personally weed out and destroy the reputation of all the garbage.

:fork:

sorry...got carried away. :D

[exp2004]

Just Do the best things
The best bet is to offer the best solutions and forget about all other things

[jmweb]

my favorites are 2-5 GB Space, 100 GB bandwidth for $10 a month....

[Chet]

I just like it is always for someone just starting a site - i am just starting this clan site, but I will be getting 10 million visitors and need 10 terrabyte of bandwidth because everyone will want to visit... then if you check a month later, site is gone, kid got sick of only having his brother visit.

[Chicken]

Yes, people do get a bit carried away with their "future projections" and lose sight of what they actually need to start out (which is often very little). The concept of "get what you need now and then upgrade as needed" is lost sometimes.

[Greg]

Originally posted by Placer14:

I refuse to participate in "Requests Forums". These customers are generally the ones that want the world and then don't know what to do with it.


Lol, i only ask in the request forums when i desperatly needed it , e.g scouts, I only asked for the minimum and in the end it turned out that i was given 1gb and 30gb of space and bandwidth- its barely using 30megs at the moment, people just give out sooo much space when there is no need, a small custom package would have been fine.

I don't see how people can use upto 5gb of space and 100gb+ of bandwidth, my other site Gregontheweb, has just started to reach gb in bandwith and the space taken up was 300 but i had a massive switch over in style and its back down to 80megs.

WHY DO PEOPLE NEED SO MUCH SPACE?????

Greg

[Chet]

WHY DO PEOPLE NEED SO MUCH SPACE?????

Some sites are bigger than other sites.

Ask chicked if HH could fit on 30megs.

[tranz]

Education, it is a lack of education and overselling by the discount box comapnies that doesnt help either.

1200G of transfer, yeah c'mon very, I mean very few people are going to push that.

I would love to see say 5000 clients all push the 1.2TB in transfer per month.
The guys that sell 1200G or more are counting on you to NEVER get there. If 1 in 300 do then no biggy.

[Chicken]

Originally posted by Chet:

Some sites are bigger than other sites.

Ask chicked if HH could fit on 30megs.
That'd be a nope. Without looking, I use about 500MB+ (not less than that).

[alex042]

1200G of transfer, yeah c'mon very, I mean very few people are going to push that.
This is one of the issues at ServerMatrix now. Many of the '$59/m' dedicated server customers are complaining that they want more than the 1000G because they are running out and don't want to pay $0.50/G overage. I'm taking a poll over there now to see what they're using it for and so far, with about 30 votes, it looks like it was a fairly even split with around 1/3rd of the servers for webhosting, 1/3rd for gaming and 1/3rd for file transfers.

[othellotech]

ok, chicken, how much space and transfer / (or actual mb/s bandwidth) does a decent forum like this use up please ?

we get regular comments like "you only give 100Mb and xyz give 2gb space" on asking "how much does your site actually need" they answer with numbers like "3Mb" :p

todate I have *never* seen a customer require the kind of insane space/transfer requirements requested so often especilaly by people who want it free, unless it's for a large commercial organisation , in which case they can pay ofr it, or a porn/warez/mp/illegal file sharing site.

[Chicken]

Minimally, it could probably use about 200-300MB, if I got rid of the backups, etc.

[jamilv]

i currently use 1.5TB of bandwidth monthly, my site is for manga artists....just the comic viewing it uses almost 3/4 of the bandwidth....the rest is in the forums and wallpapers section.

[tranz]

Originally posted by jamilv:

i currently use 1.5TB of bandwidth monthly, my site is for manga artists....just the comic viewing it uses almost 3/4 of the bandwidth....the rest is in the forums and wallpapers section.

You are the exception to the rule. We have one client that pushes over 12Tb monthly. So, its all in the content your serving up.

[jamilv]

ya....any type of manga or anime is expected to get over 40gb bandwidth monthly.....even the separate manga news site i own pushes 10gb bandwidth monthly just for text

[Placer14]

Like i said...there are always exceptions...but i find it hard to believe that EVERYONE is that exception.

People just don't know what they need and when they have it, they don't use it..... Of course, they dont care because they aren't paying for it.

[tranz]

Actually they are the just dont realize it.

Companies cant offer overy person 1200G of transfer without having some of the costs that go along with the spread out over a number of clients.

Think about it, EV1 has 17,000 servers. Each one on avg. gets 1TB or 1000G of transfer. Thats = 17,000,000 Gigs that could be transfered.

A 1MB pipe can transfer on avg. say 300G per month.

So, take 1024MB pipe or a GIGE, it can do 307,200 Gigs per month in transfer. This would equal to 3,000TB of transfer.

So based off my rough numbers EV1 would have to have 55 GIGE PIPES!!

So, lets say for gigles that each GIGE pipe is costing them $100K per month and that is at HUGE discounts.

Their bandwidth costs alone would be in the area of $5.5MM

(Dont hammer me on my numbers either as they are just rough estimates.)

So, lets also say that you have 17,000 clients each one paying on avg. $200 per month, that would be $3.4MM.

Then 314,000 dialup people at what, $9.95, thats $3,124,300.

So from the both you have $6.5MM Gross. Minus $5.5MM for BW costs. So that leaves you with $1MM for salaries and other operational expenses.

When you add it it even if my numbers are off a little, it is still huge overselling.

They would be hammered if every client they have pushed ALL the transfer they were allotted. They are betting that most will not even though they offer it.

[Rapid Host]

Does anyone offer adult hosting?

Any customer looking for adult hosting is gonna need those huge reasources your all talking about, and these people ARE NOT exceptions to the rule, the porn buisness is huge and everyday there is somone looking for a host, think of all the images and video they need to provide they are gonna be huge resource hogs, or not so much them as the sick mothers that are looking @ their content all day.

[othellotech]

The numbers didn't look right ....


EV1 has 17,000 servers. Each one on avg. gets 1TB or 1000G of transfer. Thats = 17,000,000 Gigs that could be transfered.

I thought to end 2003 the *real* number was 12000 ...


A 1MB pipe can transfer on avg. say 300G per month.

Agreed


So, take 1024MB pipe or a GIGE,

1000Mb/s not 1024, cable speeds are 10..100..1000
= 300,000Gb = 300TB of transfer. not 3000

But essentially 1 GigE for every 300 servers, 12000 boxes = 40GigE links yes.


So, lets say for gigles that each GIGE pipe is costing them $100K per month and that is at HUGE discounts.

Nope, try closer to 40k/month each

So *transit* cost would be say 1.6m/month


So, lets also say that you have 17,000 clients each one paying on avg. $200 per month, that would be $3.4MM.

with the largest no of servers being 79/89/99$ income is prob closer to avg 130/unit = $1,560,000

So forgetting about space, power, staff, hardware purchase, NOC costs etc, it woudl *appear* that it's massively oversold or they're so generous they run @ a loss for the benefits of their customers ;)

In reality the diallup lowers the transit costs - more b/width up the phones, less b/width down the GigE lines, which they dont have enough of anyway to satisfy whats been sold ...


They would be hammered if every client they have pushed ALL the transfer they were allotted. They are betting that most will not even though they offer it.


they'd go bust if 30% of them used it

however most dont people who do *really* need the kind of insane (for the money) amounts of transfer etc being offered by dedicated suppliers and reseller companies.

sadly evetually the whole market will degrade into a bucket-shop, even today we heard "i'm not renewing my colo at the end of march, as i'm going to sh!te-servers-r-us who offer me a gazzilion more Gb/s transfer (they use under 30Gb/month) are much cheaper (£15) and have loads more connections to other isps and transits (in reality sh!te-servers-r-us has a single switch and a single 100mb connection to their single upstream, what sh!te-servers-r-us website says is just cut&pasted from their upstream who in fact have somewhat *exagerated* the size of their network)

I simply said, "ok, not a problem, please put it in writing to ... so we have a record of it, and good luck, I hope it works out for you. If you ever need anything feel free to get in touch". I expect their 1st downtime in 10months to be sometime in April ...

[Placer14]

I know these sorts of things are brought up time and time again but it's frustrating to be pushing through a market that is so saturated with this sort of thing. Organization and group have gotten together to attempt to standardize fair hosting practicies but it hasn't been done sucessfully.

Can anyone critically look at what's been done and point out what's gone wrong? Or is this even the answer? Should be grin and bare it? Can point cite threads, organizations, anything where this has already ben attempted?

[tranz]

There was an attempt by some of us not to long ago. it didnt get anywhere as there are a great number of people and companies big and small that do just this. They oversell like crazy.

The only way to set yourself apart from the crowd is to wait till they blow themselves up and then show that with value added services why you are the better choice.

[alex042]

Competition doesn't always make for a better product like it's supposed to.

[pcgamez]

I run a site that is a book database (see sig). On images alone that are ~70x130, I use up ~60mb. Now, I am going to be switching to allow larger sized images. 19,000 books x 100k, that is almost 2gb for images alone.