VPS a good next step?

[MMiz]

Hello WebHosting Gurus :)

I've had a shared hosting plan since 1999. I've had a WHM/cPanel reseller account for just about two years. I'm really wanting to learn how to admin a server and am eyeing some of those lower-end VPS plans, especially from Dinix.

What do you think? Would a VPS be too big of a leap? Any suggestions for companies? Dinix seems to be fully managed, whereas DedicatedNow and ServInt's definitions seem less managed.

Comments, suggestions? Is it too big of a leap?

Thanks :)

[Chicken]

I don't think it's too big of a leap, though I wonder what system the VPS uses. You said you've had a, "WHM/cPanel reseller account for just about two years" so I wonder if it might be a better move to go from that to an inexpensive fully managed cPanel server? Cost is obvisouly a factor, and I'm not sure how many reseller accounts you have under your belt?

[gate2vn]

if you are not familiar with managing server, patching security holes, upgrading OS... you should go with managed solution, including VPS or managed server. personally, I think VPS is a good step. But it depends on your scale and budget. If you're big reseller, have thousand of users :) you should go with server. If you can pay $200 or more monthly, you should go with server. Otherwise, VPS is your choice.

If you choose VPS, Dinix or JVDS are good options. They both have good comments and fast services. You cant go wrong with them.

good luck.

[demonmoo]

Note : I'm obviously biased here
But I would go for a low end VPS (and not put any customers on it) and play around with server adminstration for awhile .Then once you feel confident I would move up to a medium grade VPS and start putting clients on it slowly.
If you have been using WHM/Cpanel for a long time make sure to get a VPS with Cpanel .
A VPS is a good step between a reseller account and a full blown server , however you still have to be able to adminster a server (or get a managed VPS) .

[IdologicJeff]

I agree with Chicken. If he hadn't posted what he did - I would have.

Good luck.
Cheers
Jeff

[megri]

VPS is good solution for resellers ( Resellers Web Hosting) if they work with plesk they will not find any problem It is as good as dedicated server except you have limited resources

[projo]

A good technical discussion group will save you many times and a host with such a forum is to be preferred over others. Non-aligned forums such as this are great but a group of people using the same host, hardware, software, connectivity, etc will often discover and repair problems before you find them. You can avoid a lot of downtime that way.

If you go with a source that does not have a good technical forum then look around for one in a similar environment. You might even crash the party at ev1servers.net. They have a lot of client-written how-to's.

[jhobbs]

I signed up with a Servint.com VPS account, with cPanel. While I think they're an excellent company, offering quality product, there are a couple of irritating deficiencies, compared to a full server.

- You can't do a cPanel backup. Servint says it's not a problem, since they backup daily, but I like to have the opportunity to create backups and download to my local storage.

- cPanel allows you to add SMTP on port 26 on a normal server, but not on a VPS. This is important to me, since my ISP blocks port 25 but not port 26. Evidently the Virtuozzo VPS won't work with cPanel to enable adding port 26.

OK, these are minor points. Just something to think about. I'm just wondering what other "deficiencies" I'll run into, if I actually start to use the account...

[gate2vn]

Originally posted by jhobbs:

- cPanel allows you to add SMTP on port 26 on a normal server, but not on a VPS. This is important to me, since my ISP blocks port 25 but not port 26. Evidently the Virtuozzo VPS won't work with cPanel to enable adding port 26.


if you think Virtuozzo has issue with port 26, you may want to try with UML? I know JVDS is a good place if you want. Contact Rus, he's a nice man.

[rockcommerce]

You could do port forwarding over SSH too. Linux Server Hacks, a book from O'Reilly, has a nice section on it. It's easy.

[Tek-Matt]

UML does not have any issues such as with Virtuozzo. Both backups and port 26 will work without problems.

[jhobbs]

Originally posted by Tek-Matt:

UML does not have any issues such as with Virtuozzo. Both backups and port 26 will work without problems. Thanks!
I've signed with jvds for a UML site, and discovered you're right, UML doesn't suffer the Virtuozzo limitations. I'm very happy with jvds.

[Hatchet]

I think the question -- VPS, Next Good Step? -- is framed too narrowly. I think the bigger question is ... VE, Only Good Step?

I think a well engineered VE holds much more promise as a hosting solution for hosting resellers and small business than current 'shared' or 'dedicated' hosting models in terms of reliability, security, scalability and long-term cost of ownership.

The problem is the web hosting industry in general has been very uncreative in its application of VE technology. Currently it is conceived and marketed only in terms of VPS/VDS (i.e. a step up from shared). But the benefits of VE technology can also be applied in ways that make it a superior 'dedicated' solution as well. Using, enterprise-quality VE technology, like Virtuozzo, I think we will eventually see new hosting paradigms that will make VE-based hosting solutions the only good step for the vast majority of the hosting market.

[bryonhost1]

Hi!
I have taken the grand tour of VPS's. Virtuozzo is about the best..as far as speed where UML suffers in speed..but seems to be more like a real dedicated server. I'm not sure if you can "make world" with UML....but I've known that was one of the limitations of Virtuozzo..and was told that was it.

I have a small UML server elsewhere...and I'll have a answer to that question shortly. I already know you do have a choice of kernels with UML...soo...I'll learn more about that later today.

As learned today...that is *not* the only limitation of Virtuozzo. There are more..I just had not planned on finding them all in one 24 hour period. I have done just that, in fact.

CPanel uses MySQL..but...I was not aware it uses the same version that you and your customers use. It does..and I broken it right and proper today by upgrading it. Ops. I knew Plesk used PHP..but the actually has two versions of PHP...one the hosting uses and one version it uses internally.

I could get rid of CPanel...but the fun doesn't stop there.

There are issues with updating RPM's and Initscripts that will break Virtuozzo as well.

I am not ready for a dedicated server yet...so I have made the decision to let them fix the VPS and keep CPanel...for now.

It seems that you are free to basically install whatever you want...as long as CPanel does not use it or it's not highly integrated into CPanel..like Postgres.
I think you could get by with having several versions of postgres on there because CPanel is aware of it...but does not use it itself.

I think for most people..VPS's are a great learning tool. I think I'll make a guide of things *Not* to do, though.

Bryon

[wisehosting]

bear in mind that it's not just virtuozzo boxes that suffer this - any server running cpanel are subject to the software cpanel installs on upgrade . . .. it's one of the joys of being a sys admin rather than just a cpanel reseller :-)

[HP-Kevin]

Managing a VPS is almost identical to managing a dedicated server, the only thing you don't have control over is the kernel, all the other responsibilities still apply.

[gaiahost]

ive been a linux admin for 8 years and my adivce is skip vps.. and just go to a dedicated server. Why waste money going in baby steps when yo ucan take the last final step and do it nicely. There are many companies out there who offer fully managed support so you can manage a server and learn without fear that you will be stranded should something go wrong. check the dedicated offers forum you will see a large amount of posts just take your pick. you can find a dedicated solution as cheap as a vps anyways so.

[gate2vn]

the issue is going with fully managed server that costs much, meanwhile with VPS, you can learn with less money. If you go with a dedicated solution as cheap as a vps, it's unmanaged, and if you dont have any experience about server management, the server can be frozen all the times

VPS is still a great idea for some one starting to learn how to manage a server

[SolidHost]

...and my adivce is skip vps.. and just go to a dedicated server. Why waste money going in baby steps when yo ucan take the last final step and do it nicely. No disrespect gaiahost, but it takes time for perfection... If you really want to learn something (by that I don't mean administrating through whm/cpanel) and not spend too much money, you might want to look into an option of setting up a box at your home and learning from there (that would be a good place to start). Considering that you've already purchased VPS, you might as well stick to it for some time.
The best way of learning things is actually by doing them and solving problems (and not just by reading a book, that won't help that much - or so I believe). Another thing, try focusing on the command line rather than using WHM. If you don't know something, don't just go and ask someone to help you out, try it yourself. Google a bit. This method is good because you'll remember the solutions far better than if someone just typed out what you need to do (again, this is my way of seeing things)...

Good luck!

Regards,
Milovan Milic
SolidHost, Inc.

[dotDavid]

I would most likely also recommend going to VPS rather than dedicated - not solely for costs but also the benefit of having higher quality hardware behind the machine.

Rather than renting out a dual xeon of my own I can have the same quality hardware behind my sites - sacrificing a little extra memory in some cases with certain providers though.

All in all - I'm personally migrating my dedicated boxes to VPS's in the near future.

I should save about 350-400 a month and will have 'little servers' redundantly setup all around the world rather than two single boxes.
:chicken:

[KaveyHosting]

VPS is good but the test box at home is the best suggestion I have seen. Before I do any major upgrades or anything on a production server I test it on a small test box here at my house. I write down the steps I take and if it goes smooth then I know I won't put anyone out of service while the DC reloads the machine. It takes more time but you will be glad you did it if something goes awry.

I have been a sysadmin for quite a while and I still won't do something new without testing first even if I know it should be a breeze. Just safer that way. Get you a test box (could be something as simple as an old pentium 1) and learn on that before you do anything on a server people rely on. Eventually you will master it. But still use your test box to cover the unexpected incidents. Once you do it once then theres no need to test again.. you can do all of your servers in the same fashion. Just my 2 cents.

Also do NOT put a monitor or a KDE on the test box. You won't have that convenience on your servers don't let yourself have it on your test box. It will hinder your learning. Load it... enable ssh and disconnect the monitor.