View Full Version : Teen Hosts Overvaluing their Services?
So we've all seen the ten gigs of space and 3000 of transfer for $9.95 a month, and thats not what Im talking about.
Im wondering how you feel about teenagers overvaluing their services. Let me be more specific. I see all the time teens and young people turn down logo requests for under $50. Some value their work and hours put in too much. When pricing out teen hours on the internet I go at the rate of ~$5.00 per hour, knowing that equals around $5.75 an hour without taxes, and that these teens have no additional costs associated with their work. There is no need to drive to work, pay for gas, most dont pay the phone bill or for their ISP service. There is no need to leave the comfort of their own room for most of these people. For the sake of this argument lets say that I feel $6.50 is a better number to use to value their services (my roomates working at college dont even make that).
So when I see some people saying they will sell a logo or template for $75, I believe that 15 hours of work should have gone into it, while usually this is not the case. I know many will find my thinking flawed, so tell me what Im missing here. This isnt a debate, but goes along with many of my other posts where I just cant comprehend certain parts of this industry.
Im learning little by little, so how do you feel about this. :confused:
What I don't understand is if it is a template that looks like it is worth $75 why does it matter if a teen made it?
I see it as almost any sort of consulting, consultants charge way too much for their time. Artists are the same way, $10,000 for a few blotches of paint on a canvas. :-P
I do see what you mean by teens not having to pay for gas, rent, etc.
Originally posted by David:
What I don't understand is if it is a template that looks like it is worth $75 why does it matter if a teen made it?
I see it as almost any sort of consulting, consultants charge way too much for their time. Artists are the same way, $10,000 for a few blotches of paint on a canvas. :-P
I do see what you mean by teens not having to pay for gas, rent, etc.
David,
Lets me first clarify, then get down with the brutal honesty. First, I was referring to the 16 and under crowd. Secondly, we all must be brutally honest when it comes to this industry, many of the teenagers that are "Hosts" or offer related services already have the money to do so and are just trying to make extra cash. I cant think of one teenage host that needs the income from the online services they provide in order to pay the rent, but I could be wrong.
In my experience in the online and offline world, I have never met a person under the age of 20 that has relied on their income from online dealings in order to pay the bills.
As far as artists, they are able to do so because of price and demand, the same system that dictates the pricing for many of the services in this industry. When you have a one-of-a-kind painting by a famous artist, then there will be greater demand.
I could be off on this one.
Maybe this is my "I dont believe this is an overnight teen king of job" thing coming through. Most likely is. That or my shameless attempt to gain more posts and one day join the ranks of the select few who have too much to say, but I doubt that too.
I think its just me rambing :)
interactive
03-29-03, 09:39 PM
I think he meant overhead such as at a regular job. Personally I could spend 20 minutes on a peice of work and charge $5 or I could spend 10 hours and charge $100. Not everything is minimum wage. I come from experience on this. It is much harder to get a job as a teen. I have bills to pay, such as insurance gas for my truck, I do have to pay for my internet connection, etc. So really I don't see a base for your argument
Originally posted by interactive:
I think he meant overhead such as at a regular job. Personally I could spend 20 minutes on a peice of work and charge $5 or I could spend 10 hours and charge $100. Not everything is minimum wage. I come from experience on this. It is much harder to get a job as a teen. I have bills to pay, such as insurance gas for my truck, I do have to pay for my internet connection, etc. So really I don't see a base for your argument
Rob,
You're 16 and have to pay for your Internet connection? Im pretty surprised. Guess I was wrong.
interactive
03-29-03, 09:46 PM
Yup. My parents raised me, that nothing comes free in life you got to earn it. I had a paper route when I was 9 years old. I pay $69 a month for satellite btw.
1000rpm
03-30-03, 05:10 AM
Skills like professional logo design have to be learnt so to pay someone $5/hour is not right, how old they are is irrelevant. Teens could get the $5/hour working at the local store. Pricing depends on the individuals skills.
Living Media
03-30-03, 07:35 AM
Here's a thing, though:
Valuation of a product or service isn't based solely on the raw value of the effort which went into it. It's also influenced by:
* what the market will bear
* perceived value to the purchaser
Consumers in general are kind of at the mercy of people who are in the know, because to value a web design or service, you have to know how to evaluate its potential effectiveness. Is it easy to use? Does it use proper, valid code so that it doesn't essentially have a "browser-life" (ie as soon as the next generation of rendering engines comes out, the site will look like dung)? Does it use HTML, text, and keywords effectively to get better results and rankings from search engines? All of that stuff that goes on "behind the scenes" needs to be checked out to place a proper value on a web site design. For hosting, different factors need to be assessed. And for both, there's also the "how much does this do for me and my interests, to free up my time for other things" question. One of my friends pays me to resize her photos for her password-protected web site, so that she can have them all available and her family and friends can look at them and even re-order photos from the site. She's an obstetrician, and by having me do this site, she gets fewer photo reprint requests that slip between the cracks - yet she didn't have to learn any HTML herself. She just ships the photo CDs to me, pays the bill, et voila, less hassle for her.
If - IF - a teen designer or host provides good, quality design or hosting, I don't have a problem with them charging more than minimum wage for their efforts - as much as professionals charge, because they are professionals. That, of course, is the kicker, since as you pointed out, many teen-run web services may not provide the same level of quality. There are also a lot of people selling web site designs, logos, and templates that are utter dreck. It's yet another application of Sturgeon's Law.
It will take a while for people to learn how to value web services - basically, time for the current generation to grow up and become consumers who have web knowledge, and so will be better able to value these things. In the meantime, the rest of us can just provide quality services as well as education.
TheGAME1264
03-30-03, 08:48 AM
Lesli's right. The best lesson I ever learned came from a guy I once worked for: "The value of something is what people are willing to pay for it." Whether it came from a teenager or a 90-year-old or somewhere in between makes no difference. It's the perceived value of the product/service itself. Personally, I'd have no problem paying a teenager the same as an adult for a service if the teenager would do at least the same quality of work or better.
Chicken
03-30-03, 12:26 PM
Yep, and while Nike probably paid an exorbitant amount for a designer to design their 'swoosh' (I wouldn't even wat to venture a guess), others scoff at paying $100 for a logo. Creativity is a hard one, and what someone can charge can't be determined by comparing it to minimum wage, no matter how old the person is.
When I used to shoot photography, I charged $125/hr. I'm sure you could find older photographers that charged less (even better ones), but if you wanted me, you would have been billed $125/hr. You have to put a value on your time. Sometimes, it is better to go to the car wash and pay $10 for them to wash your car in a hour, even though you could do it but it would take you two hours. If your time is worth less than $5/hr., then you should wash it, but if your time is worth more than $5/hr., pay to have it done.
interactive
03-30-03, 12:41 PM
Time, the only thing you can never get back....
Originally posted by interactive:
Time, the only thing you can never get back....
Ahem, that's not the ONLY thing, when you are a little older we'll tell you the other thing :D.
interactive
03-30-03, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by allan:
Ahem, that's not the ONLY thing, when you are a little older we'll tell you the other thing :D.
lol. You know what I mean though.
OT: That's actually a quote from the guy who started/used to own broadcast.com. He sold it to yahoo for like $1 billion. Went out and bought 2 737's and bought the Orlando Magics. Like 1-2 months after he sold it, the dot com drops took place. They lost like $500 million...
I, also, think the value of a product is what you are willing to pay for it. One thing that teens bring into this marketplace is a fresh perspective. Adults sometimes get set in their ways of what 'has always worked'. Boredom soon follows.
I have always tried to give a young person who has some ambition a shot. They deserve a chance if they are willing to try.
Sidenote: If they always underpriced the "real professionals" and provided the same level of product, the "pros" would be in trouble.
maxhest
03-30-03, 05:06 PM
Well as a teen, I know how it goes. I do a average amount of work per week. I put in around a hour of work during the week. I check my e-mail 8-10 times daily maybe more, I process all my orders, add to panel and DNS, Anwser support requests and question forms, speek with tech support staff on progress for the day(usually slow) and follow up with customers and e-mails. On the weekend, I put in around 1-6 hours daily. I usually update my site, check e-mail around 20 times daily, go to HHO and WHT :D, follow up with support staff for the week, process orders, do billing and Paypal. Not to bad for a teen with a life and sk00l :).
-Max
interactive
03-30-03, 06:28 PM
Know how it is. Except I spend around 7-10 hours a day on the computer just at home. That's school days too.
GnomeyNewt
04-04-03, 06:41 AM
Originally posted by MMiz:
In my experience in the online and offline world, I have never met a person under the age of 20 that has relied on their income from online dealings in order to pay the bills.
Well you just met one... I am 22 years old now, but I started my business when I was 19 years old. I have lived on my own (well now with my husband), since the age of 18. I started to do freelance work at 17 years old, and moved into owning my own webdesign/hosting business at 19 years old.
I honestly think you need to drop the age issue, because it all depends on the person. There are "majority cases" of so and so's. But there are some young people, many which post on these message boards learning faster than I can even think and improving in areas that I have left unnoticed. While some youngin's don’t know what they are doing, some hit it right on the bulls-eye. :uzi:
Age is just age. That’s all it is. The laws of 18 / 17 / 16 of driving/drinking/being an adult -- do not apply to individual’s personality. We don't turn 18 and automatically become adults, etc. Everybody is different and you have to make your own judgment on the individual once you have gotten to know them.
That applies to the services they offer. If they are providing great service, than they should get paid for it. I don’t see the difference between somebody say age 35 starting to make templates VS age 15 starting to make templates, and why the age 35 should get paid more just because they are older? It all depends on the quality of the work they are doing.
To me, age is of no relevance to anything.
To be honest i wouldnt give a damn if a 9 year old designed me a little something, thing is if its good i'll pay the good price - i wont lower costs just coz they are younger etc.
TowerHost.com
04-09-03, 09:38 PM
Interesting topic - Sarah has made a good point though. Why should a younger person get paid less if the quality of work is excellent and deal with the client in a professional and respectful manner?
It depends on the person doing it - but age does come into play for certain things. 14 year olds shouldn't even consider starting companies, they should be thinking about girls and cars IMO :D
Although freelancing is different and I think teens should try to get experience by working for others, not by just starting Company XYZ.
Originally posted by MMiz:
In my experience in the online and offline world, I have never met a person under the age of 20 that has relied on their income from online dealings in order to pay the bills.
Congratulations! Now you know 2 people who rely on online dealings. I am paying for my college on my own through the income I have made with my online dealings. I started working when I was 16 from my room in Bombay, India. I never had to, but I was never to keen on my parents paying for my school. Today, I am 19, I go to a university at the other end of the world, I pay 50 times the amount any other American citizen would pay, I fly back home twice a year. If I wanted to buy a car, the insurance is double of what any 25 year old would pay in New York State. Shouldn't it be cheaper for us? Everyone has expenses, you are forgetting the party every weekend or that expensive thing your girlfriend wants. ;) I am paying for everything out of my own pocket. My pocket is filled with the income I get from online jobs. I have never ever met any client I have dealt with to-date. So yes, we do have expenses to.
I don't see the justification in paying a person less just because they are young and *may* not have to pay for gas and a house. :)
kunal
Originally posted by Chicken:
Yep, and while Nike probably paid an exorbitant amount for a designer to design their 'swoosh' (I wouldn't even wat to venture a guess), others scoff at paying $100 for a logo. Creativity is a hard one, and what someone can charge can't be determined by comparing it to minimum wage, no matter how old the person is.
When I used to shoot photography, I charged $125/hr. I'm sure you could find older photographers that charged less (even better ones), but if you wanted me, you would have been billed $125/hr. You have to put a value on your time. Sometimes, it is better to go to the car wash and pay $10 for them to wash your car in a hour, even though you could do it but it would take you two hours. If your time is worth less than $5/hr., then you should wash it, but if your time is worth more than $5/hr., pay to have it done. Nike had their logo designed for $50 I believe.
hostpath.com
04-24-03, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by Dave:
Nike had their logo designed for $50 I believe.
Close! Caroline Davidson designed the Nike "swoosh" in 1971 and she was paid $35 for it.
JeremyV
04-24-03, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by hostpath.com:
Close! Caroline Davidson designed the Nike "swoosh" in 1971 and she was paid $35 for it.
Wow... I bet that makes her sick to her stomach to look back on now.
hostpath.com
04-24-03, 08:08 PM
She was an advertising student in college at the time. I suppose it may bother her, but why should it, really? If she wanted more she should have asked for more at the time. Just because it's value is now enormous doesn't mean that wasn't the right price at the time.
JeremyV
04-24-03, 08:15 PM
no, of course not, because the Nike logo is so incredibly simple, I suppose one would never expect much from it. But say you designed a simple logo that some starting up host wanted and paid you 100 bucks for it. Sure, its quick money and you never think much of it. Well, 10 years down the road that company is now the the industry leader and making billions of dollars... you can't say you would be a little dissapointed, especially if you didn't get any recgonition
hostpath.com
04-24-03, 08:47 PM
Jeremy:
I suppose so, but I'm pretty pragmatic -- if the logo was worth $100 initially and we were both happy with the arrangement, then I couldn't complain. Current worth doesn't necessarily reflect future value.
Of course my partner made $2.2 million on a $70 investment, so I've seen the sort of thing you describe (sort of) happen up close!
Originally posted by hostpath.com:
Jeremy:
I suppose so, but I'm pretty pragmatic -- if the logo was worth $100 initially and we were both happy with the arrangement, then I couldn't complain. Current worth doesn't necessarily reflect future value.
Of course my partner made $2.2 million on a $70 investment, so I've seen the sort of thing you describe (sort of) happen up close! How did he manage to do that?
hostpath.com
04-25-03, 03:51 AM
Dave: His name is Kelly and he bought the domain name "autos.com" for one of this online sites (a used auto listing site) and in 1999 CarsDirect wanted it -- so they paid him $2.2 million for it.
GnomeyNewt
04-25-03, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by JeremyV:
Wow... I bet that makes her sick to her stomach to look back on now.
I'm sure it does in some ways.. But also you must consider that everybody knows who made that logo and if she is still making them, probally makes alot more than $35/logo these days.
In my experience in the online and offline world, I have never met a person under the age of 20 that has relied on their income from online dealings in order to pay the bills. I have not read all of the responses in this thread (shame on me! Slapping my own wrist ok!) but I did want to note the following.
I really don't care what they are spending their money on. That is not of my concern. I'd turn a client away if their issues with my costs revolved around reviewing my personal check book. Whether I'm buying food for my bird, a present for myself, or paying the rent is irrelevant to the clients that purchase our services. The service or product is all that matters. What I earn from doing the work is my income and whether I am fortunate enough to still be living with a parent that's covering all of my major bills, or the single mother of ten trying to afford milk for the week, shouldn't even be discussed.
One teenager may be saving for a college fund that his/her parents couldn't afford. Another may be helping their parents pay the rent during hard times. Yet another may be spending it on the kewl shoes and new rims for the car to impress some girl at school. Who cares? I can hire a lawn company to mow my lawn or a teenager. As long as my lawn gets mowed correctly by someone able to work legally then the worth of it is the same to me regardless of who is doing it.
Never let age, race, religious preferences etc determine the worth of the job. It's just wrong.
Originally posted by Deb:
I can hire a lawn company to mow my lawn or a teenager. As long as my lawn gets mowed correctly by someone able to work legally then the worth of it is the same to me regardless of who is doing it.
Deb -- I agree with everything you said above, but I am curious: Do you pay the teenager the same amount of money to mow your lawn as a lawn company? I ask, because generally the rates for teenagers are significantly less than those for professional lawn care companies.
JeremyV
04-25-03, 08:49 AM
I will mow unlimited acres of lawn for only $2.99!!!! CALL ME DEB!
I will mow unlimited acres of lawn for only $2.99!!!! CALL ME DEB! ROFLMAO!!! It's obvious you've not seen MY lawn :P You show up with working mower in your hands and you've got a deal! :D
Deb -- I agree with everything you said above, but I am curious: Do you pay the teenager the same amount of money to mow your lawn as a lawn company? I ask, because generally the rates for teenagers are significantly less than those for professional lawn care companies. If the teen is able to provide equal or better services -- YES! There is no reason not to.
I agree that 'most teens' do not have the same equipment and other workers to do the job as quickly/efficiently and therefore may be worth less, but it's the JOB that IS worth less and not the teen. If the teen can do the same job, then hats off to the teen and the checkbook will treat him equally.
FindSP.com
04-25-03, 08:53 AM
A wise man once told me - your service is worth what people are willing to pay for it.. it's not really related to the topic, but I think it's the truth..
Like an auction, things are sold for unreasonable prices but people are paying for it and it means that that's what it worth..
Just my 2 cents..
hostpath.com
04-25-03, 10:23 AM
WAAAAAAY back when I ran a retail computer store, I made a mistake that taught me a valuable lesson. We were located near a school, and often youngsters would come in after school to hang around as they walked home. One day I was approached by a 13-year-old who said he was interested in a computer. Well, I started the usual sales talk about games and graphics and bring your parents in to look at some and blah, blah, blah...when he then informed me that it would be a business machine that he intended to use for GL, A/R, A/P, etc and wanted a recommendation on an accounting package. He informed me that HE was the decision maker, not his parents.
As it turns out, this 13-year-old kid was the owner of one of the area's largest commercial plant *****ries! He personally ran the company and employed nearly a dozen people. His father worked for HIM and his father, because the young entrepreneur was under age, signed all his legally-binding contracts.
I learned something very important on that day, I can tell you.
JeremyV
04-25-03, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by Deb:
ROFLMAO!!! It's obvious you've not seen MY lawn :P You show up with working mower in your hands and you've got a deal! :D
No no, I can do an even better deal!!! I will mow your lawn, no matter how large, I will provide all of my own equipment, and all I ask for in return is you put a sign in your yard with my logo. PM ME! :p:
ghpickjr
06-14-03, 03:13 PM
Well,
I don't care if your 8 or 80, if I'm paying for services I look at the quality and experience I'm getting. Granted the 8 year old probably does not have the experience of the 80 year old, but I don't believe you can set a rate by the age of your provider.
I currently am 18, attending college, paying for everything (Rent, DSL, Car, Etc...) and running not one, but two businesses out of my home here. One is web hosting which I am just starting to do more public hosting/advertising and the other is local PC Tech Support/PC building.
Almost everything I own I've bought myself. I can't say 100% I've bought as parents have helped me through the years (most parents do) but I would say that most of it I have paid for myself, not to mention the trip to France I had to pay %75 of myself.
Because I am 18, and do web hosting as a reseller and not my own colocation server does not mean I am irresponsible. The reason for the reseller account is because I cannot afford the cost of colocation/dedicated nor the support fees. I have basic knowledge of Linux but am building a second box to get familiar with it.
I can see your point about those who charge $100 for their logo and are creating them with copies of Photoshop they got off of Kazaa. However when I've gone to someone for design services or coding I have not considered their age as a factor, but more the price they want and the work they do/have done.
Edit: Sorry for bringing up an old post. I felt strongly about this topic and typed before I checked the date.
Originally posted by JeremyV:
I will mow unlimited acres of lawn for only $2.99!!!! CALL ME DEB!
Perfect JeremyV. I have had this situation at my last house. My ex-wife and I had spent a fortune on landscaping. I had 2 boys to mow the lawn, I could hire a teenager or a proffesional landscaper.
First my son set the lawnmower to low and cut part of the lawn down to dirt. Honest mistake but the lawn had to be re-sod in that area.
So I decided I wanted sowemone who would take responsibility if something happened. If I hired a teenager and he screwed up it was going to cost me money. This was for total yard care, not just mowing the lawn. So we hired a pro who was bonded and insured. Cost a little more but the peace of mind was worth it for us.
A couple of years ago I was doing network installations around town, I charged $65 and hour (Just under the phone companies $70/hr) I had a guy say they would pay me minimum wage to run some CAT5, I told them, nope, its $65/hr including terminations, the guy laughed at me and ended up having Charter (the cable company) do it for him. They stapled the coax to the vinyl siding on the FRONT of his house... :-)
Chicken
08-08-03, 07:02 AM
Originally posted by timb:
They stapled the coax to the vinyl siding on the FRONT of his house... :-)
That seems to be the way they do it (he says as he looks at the CATV cable nailed down the back wall of his house). I have no idea why, but you're right.
Velostream
08-09-03, 01:15 AM
I'm afraid I disagree with you. Personally, I am 18 years old. I graduated high school and will be going to college. College is not cheap, and since I'm moving out, it will be that much more expensive. Tuition is being raised all across the board by 30%, and it was expensive before that.
On a side note, I've been doing web design ever since I was in the 9th grade at the tender age of 14. I made some money off of this, and it was as a result of 4 years saving this money I was able to buy a car for myself, not to mention using the money to pay for insurance, contribute to home expenses, and other various vital expenses, including medical insurance copays because I had to undergo several surgeries.
Basically, don't underestimate teenagers. Sure there are those who are immature and ar goofballs, but I've seen many adults who act the same and even worse. If the work is good, don't let age factor into the equation. There are teens who are dedicated to their businesses. I've been running a web design business for 4 years and am venturing into web hosting. So, success is what you choose to make it.
Just my thoughts.
Originally posted by Velostream:
Basically, don't underestimate teenagers. Sure there are those who are immature and ar goofballs, but I've seen many adults who act the same and even worse.
However, one is more likely to run into a teenager with these qualities than an adult.
Originally posted by allan:
However, one is more likely to run into a teenager with these qualities than an adult.
Allan, you'd be surprised at some of the "adults" I have run into working on YaBBSE, now to be SMF, and then my company Boardnation. Sure there are a lot of immmature kids but often it seems they are much easier to pick out by their writing style and such. Those that act like a well mannered adult until something goes wrong are the dangerous ones.
I know I'm jumping into this a little late... but I don't really consider age when picking someone to contract work. I look at their portfolio, speak to some past clients and make a judgement based upon all the information I have and the conversations I've had with them. If they are immature or inexperienced they won't get the job. It may or may not be because of age.
About valuing services... I pay based on the quality of work done not the experience. Of course, quality comes with experience but some things also come naturally to some people. I've charged over $1000 for a logo design before and many times that for a web design. I've also paid $25 for a banner ad. It all depends on the quality of work done and the complexity of the job.
If a 16 yr old can do the same quality work (on the same deadline) as a 30 yr old why should they be paid any differently?
Originally posted by MMiz:
So we've all seen the ten gigs of space and 3000 of transfer for $9.95 a month, and thats not what Im talking about.
Im wondering how you feel about teenagers overvaluing their services. Let me be more specific. I see all the time teens and young people turn down logo requests for under $50. Some value their work and hours put in too much. When pricing out teen hours on the internet I go at the rate of ~$5.00 per hour, knowing that equals around $5.75 an hour without taxes, and that these teens have no additional costs associated with their work. There is no need to drive to work, pay for gas, most dont pay the phone bill or for their ISP service. There is no need to leave the comfort of their own room for most of these people. For the sake of this argument lets say that I feel $6.50 is a better number to use to value their services (my roomates working at college dont even make that).
So when I see some people saying they will sell a logo or template for $75, I believe that 15 hours of work should have gone into it, while usually this is not the case. I know many will find my thinking flawed, so tell me what Im missing here. This isnt a debate, but goes along with many of my other posts where I just cant comprehend certain parts of this industry.
Im learning little by little, so how do you feel about this. :confused:
I say work is work right? If a teen can do the job, let them. Be fair, pay them what you would pay a 30 year old. Why does age really matter? :confused:
I can understand a little, if you are buying webspace you may not want to buy from a teen.. thats another debate all together. Though for designing, coding... pay them what you would pay a 30 year old. Be fair.. plan and simple
Something that just sort of struck me out of the blue for no apparent reason.....and may worth a thought on topics such as these...
MANY parents trust their Children to teenagers via part, and even full time, child care jobs.
Amazing what we will and wont trust to a teen huh?
Again it comes down to the resume, experience, trust etc... I think it's just something a bit more difficult to obtain over the net than in face to face interactions....
but we are not talking about sending our kids to these teens... we are talking about letting kids design websites and get paid what they deserve. Now when it comes to web hosting, true it is important, you must trust your host. But if I wanted a design, and I met a 15 year old on this forum and he said I can design you something. I would say okay, and if I liked what I saw... I would pay him what he deserves. I really cannot understand why some one would want to pay a teen less because of age... just can some one who is for paying teens less give me a reason why teens should be paid less for there work?
Originally posted by JeremyV:
No no, I can do an even better deal!!! I will mow your lawn, no matter how large, I will provide all of my own equipment, and all I ask for in return is you put a sign in your yard with my logo. PM ME! :p:
Haha! Thats made my day :)
Craig
many of the teenagers that are "Hosts" or offer related services already have the money to do so and are just trying to make extra cash.
If my mother is rich.. does that mean I shouldn't get paid just as much as the guy next to me since I am only doing this for 'extra' cash...
Bottom line is if it's worth 75 dollars, then pay it.. don't say well he is only doing this for the extra cash, so let's down the price. It's really that simple if you ask me...
alex042
01-27-04, 05:40 AM
If my mother is rich.. does that mean I shouldn't get paid just as much as the guy next to me since I am only doing this for 'extra' cash...
Wanna send me a rich mom? ;) My mom supported 3 kids on $8,000/yr and that was with child support. We were lucky that she even had enough saved up to pay for 1 semester of college for each of us.
haha.. I wish I could.. I grew up in a one parent house hold (only mom) with her rasing her 5 kids including me.. we had it rought.. we barely got by.. I mean we were barely getting by. I hate talkin like this but it's true.. we had no family to lean on, she made do wit what she was giving.
She taught me what a dollar truly is.. :D and taught me about cupoons LOL
I am a teen host and i don't think we over value our service, we are alot cheaper than other hosts around and all people can afford our prices. We are not making extra cash, we just do it for fun, we can do everything a normal host can do the only difference is we go to school. I hope that fitted in with the question.
alex042
01-27-04, 09:49 AM
She taught me what a dollar truly is.. and taught me about cupoons LOL
Oh yea, when we would eat out, it was the $1 big macs with water since the meal was too expensive and movies were 50 cent rentals of old outdated movies because theatres, as well as standard $3-4 rental rates for new movies, were too expensive. We lived in HUD housing with her old Ford Escort she drove only like 5000 miles per year because gas was too expensive. She would walk 3 or 4 blocks to work to save on gas and trips 3 or 4 miles to the mall was only every few weeks. She would go to a different gas station to save 3 or 4 cents per gallon.
In fact, my mom is still that way. She came over the other day to have me change her tire just to save a few bucks. By the time I got it changed, I already spent enough time changing the tire that, on my normal hourly rate, it would have been cheaper to pay someone else to do it. Right now, my time is money as I try to get out of debt so I'm spending most of my waking hours trying to be productive to make a buck to pay the debt.
we can do everything a normal host can do the only difference is we go to school.
What if your server goes down while you're in school? Do you have an admin watching the server while you're there? Or do you have a cell phone or pager so you know and can contact someone to get it back online if needed? Thats the difference. Businesses can't have 6-8hrs of downtime waiting for someone to get out of school.
Barbara
01-27-04, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by Greg:
I am a teen host and i don't think we over value our service, we are alot cheaper than other hosts around and all people can afford our prices. We are not making extra cash, we just do it for fun, we can do everything a normal host can do the only difference is we go to school. I hope that fitted in with the question.
Do your customers know that you're just doing it for fun? If they do and they're OK with that, then that's probably not a problem.
I didn't really mean fun, what i meant was, that we aren't in it for the money, our customers do know that we are 13 but most don't have a problem with that, as long as we awnser support questions often they don't have a problem.
Yeah like greg says, we have a perfectly good site (almost finished) and 2 sets of parents with credit cards. I think our prices are extreemly reasonable and we offer lots of services some hosts dont!
:suckers:
alex042
01-28-04, 05:02 AM
I'm not sure how many businesses would sign up for hosting with someone under 18 knowing that any contracts with them wouldn't be legally binding and that the host could screw them and get away with it so I assume most of your customers are teens or for personal use.
dynamicnet
01-28-04, 06:51 AM
Greetings:
Value is not defined by age, race, faith, religion, material possessions or lack there of, expenses, income, money needed, geographic location, et al.
Value is defined by the consumer.
If a 6 year old creates something of value to a consumer, and the consumer finds the value to be higher than that of a 30 year old with four children, a house, a mortgage, two car payments, etc. then the consumer has the right to pay the 6 year old far more than the 30 year old.
It is part of capitalism. You don’t get revenue based on tenure of service or need for the revenue, but on the value produced.
If you like reading science fiction, Terry Goodkind’s book, “Faith of the Fallen” does discuss a society where values are not based on quality of production, but on other factors. While the book is fictional, the segment of the book that goes over what can happen to a society when value is not based on quality; and, it is not a happy picture.
In ending, I find it more common for children to undervalue their services rather than overvalue. They tend to catch on quickly to technology, but lack a solid business foundation to know what to charge for the value they deliver.
Thank you.
Originally posted by exasko:
I say work is work right? If a teen can do the job, let them. Be fair, pay them what you would pay a 30 year old. Why does age really matter? :confused:
Be fair.. plan and simple
Well said, i agree, it doesn't matter what age you are, if you can do the job, do it, age is not that much of a problem.
Host Master Jay
01-31-04, 07:33 AM
Actually I think the only people who really overhaul anything are those people who design, and or code with their noses in the air. I am decent at what I do, but you'll never find me charging $50 bucks for a logo. I would be able to design someone a logo for merely 10 bucks and can quaruntee that same quality that the $50 design had.
Now, when it comes to overhauling hosting services. I personally think if you have the space and you're making money then why not give more for less? Hell, I gave 200gb bandwidth for just $90 a month, and that's only because I have the space to offer it for that cheap and still make a large profit off of it.
Chicken
01-31-04, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by Host Master Jay:
I am decent at what I do, but you'll never find me charging $50 bucks for a logo. I would be able to design someone a logo for merely 10 bucks and can quaruntee that same quality that the $50 design had.
I assume you've had a job (minimum wage type) before though, yes? At that job, if the boss asked you, "Do you want $10/hr. or $50/hr.?" -which would you pick. Same job, do the same thing, only difference would be pay rate.
Host Master Jay
01-31-04, 09:45 AM
No, I've never had a minimum wage job. I've always worked for myself. I just know how to be fair. I also knows what pays.
There's a difference in what you said though. Getting offered 50 dollars, and turning down $50 is two different things. My base price is $10 but if someone offers $50 I'm 'not' going to turn them away.
alex042
02-02-04, 05:12 AM
Theres a difference between someone under 18 designing and Logo and offering hosting. A Logo is basically a one-at-a-time deal and either the customer likes it or they don't, but with hosting, there's a chance everyday that the service will fail and therefore more liability. Similar with scripting, as long as a business runs a script, there's a chance that they will find a bug somewhere down the line that could cause them loss in revenue. Whereas with a logo, a business knows up front what the logo looks like and it doesn't change. A logo doesn't have bugs, nor can it cease to operate.
What does it matter how much a teen wants for a logo or template. If you dont like the price or service, simply tell them that your not interested at the time being and you will keep there contact information. *That Simple*
Most teens are over pricing there things, however you are the customer. If you dont like what you receive you have the right to tell the designer that (even if it is a teen).
You have the right to do and spend your money as you please. Just because a teenager wants more money, means he should work more for it.
hlh_nospam
02-13-04, 02:14 PM
Gads! One of the beauties of the 'net is that nobody need know how old you are!!!!!:baghead:
Originally posted by Ryan:
What does it matter how much a teen wants for a logo or template. If you dont like the price or service, simply tell them that your not interested at the time being and you will keep there contact information. *That Simple*
Most teens are over pricing there things, however you are the customer. If you dont like what you receive you have the right to tell the designer that (even if it is a teen).
You have the right to do and spend your money as you please. Just because a teenager wants more money, means he should work more for it.
There is a difference between a one-time deal like a logo, and a long-term commitment like web hosting. I'm aware that teenagers can produce the same quality results as older individuals, but will they be around a month from then? A year? Reality is that a teenager's life is less stable than most adults. What happens when summer is up? When it's time to go to college? What happens when mom or dad takes away the computer or internet connection?
Web Hosting is a commitment, and I've seen many "companies" go under. Many were under the age of 18 and had no business experience. Sure there are a few that are able to provide quality services for years and years, but there aren't many.
It seems many believe that web hosting is having technical knowledge, but many forget it's also a business. I had a job interview last week, and the person interviewing me said "We can train anyone to be a paramedic, but it's almost impossible to teach people skills." That's the same thing with web hosting. Above all else it is a business with paying customers, and in general I want to be paying an adult that will be around in a year, one who has legal consequences for just throwing in the towel and running away with my money.
Originally posted by MMiz:
There is a difference between a one-time deal like a logo, and a long-term commitment like web hosting. I'm aware that teenagers can produce the same quality results as older individuals, but will they be around a month from then? A year? Reality is that a teenager's life is less stable than most adults. What happens when summer is up? When it's time to go to college? What happens when mom or dad takes away the computer or internet connection?
Web Hosting is a commitment, and I've seen many "companies" go under. Many were under the age of 18 and had no business experience. Sure there are a few that are able to provide quality services for years and years, but there aren't many.
It seems many believe that web hosting is having technical knowledge, but many forget it's also a business. I had a job interview last week, and the person interviewing me said "We can train anyone to be a paramedic, but it's almost impossible to teach people skills." That's the same thing with web hosting. Above all else it is a business with paying customers, and in general I want to be paying an adult that will be around in a year, one who has legal consequences for just throwing in the towel and running away with my money.
I totally agree! ;)
Originally posted by hlh_nospam:
Gads! One of the beauties of the 'net is that nobody need know how old you are!!!!!:baghead:
Yea, but you should never lie about your age if you are asked.
If someone is willing to pay the asking price than it does nto matter if it is teen or not. 5.00 is not enough for getting something nicely made.. It is all prefrecne. If you dont agree with the prices than go for someone who charges less (But most ADULTS wont do it for less ;-) )
One hour of hard work on the comp for $5.00 I wouldnt do that if it was the simplest job.. Just my opinion. ;-)
fluiddesigns
03-06-04, 11:32 AM
I know I'm late on this topic. But I just found out about this board and joined. For those who are concerned with age and the business world, it doesn't matter. I am now 19 years old and have been in the world of web design since about the age of 13 when I got my first computer.
I dedicated a lot of my time to learning the trade that I have under my belt today. Around the age of 14 I started to do small sites here and there for differnet small companies. The first site that I designed I only charged $75 for and I was the happiest person on the face of this planet. Since then I have evolved into a business man. Incorporated my company in 2001 single handedly. You see the government doesn't have an age on paying taxes. LOL
My point in this topic before I continue to ramble on is that the value and your presentation has an impact on people. If you are 12 and act 12 you shouldn't conduct business. If you are 12 and act as a mature business professional then you have learned what it is to be a sucessful business leader.
6 years later, I have a list of about 15 customers who I maintain and run their websites and everyone has stuck with me. I have also branched off into computer repair/sales/upgrades, networking, and everything else. You name it we do it.
My final word. I own 2 cars, paid for them both, pay my insurance, pay for my isp, pay for my office space and haven't asked my mother for a penny since I started in this field. Would you consider me being well off? And that I did it all on my own.
Btw, www.seanjohn.com <- designed by a 17 year old. Read up about him he's doing big things. Was the first to integrate ColdFusion & Flash.
The power of knowledge doesn't have an age barrier.
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