View Full Version : Paysystems cancelled my account!
I have been with Paysystems for over 6 months and just got an email from them stating that due to routine checks on my account they can no longer do business with me because of a chargeback ratio.
I have only had 1 (ONE) chargeback for $6 in my entire 6 months with Paysystems!
I tried calling them and emailing their fraud dept. with no replies. My account is locked and my customers who have outstanding invoices cannot pay because I have no payment processor!
I am so upset I can't stand it... they may have made an error or it may have been intentional but either way I think I deserved a phone call or some notification before the account was disabled.
Hell, the 1 chargeback was from a customer that had hosted with us for 3 months and only charged back the last month because they wanted to cancel their account. They didn't know how so did a chargeback... and Paysystems woudln't reverse it so I could just give them a refund! It wasn't even our fault!!
I don't know what to do... would welcome any suggestions. I'm about to sign up with 2Checkout... are they any better? I'm hesitant to get a full-fledged merchant account just yet...
A full merchant account wont stop you from hitting the same wall.
It goes based on the number and the amount of transactions per month you do. If you dont do that many and they are not that high, when a negitive mark, may not even be a charge back accurrs it could be the end.
These terms are not set by the 3rd party company but by Visa, MC, Dis all of them. You are only allowed to have 1% of a negitive mark and, or charge back based on your avg. monthly volume. 1% is nothing. So even one can get you screwed.
net-trend
10-10-03, 11:57 PM
2checkout is HEAPS better than Paysystems IMHO.
Why do I say that?
1) Paysystems, never returned any email replies to our queries.
2) 2Checkout, while they do have their problems at times, do answer calls / answer helpdesk tickets and payout on time with the correct sum.
3) Paysystems works on a points system, 2CO doesn't.
and the list goes on and on...my main gripe with them is response, which i found lacking in all aspects.
Brandon,
They canceled mine yesterday as well. They must be doing some cleaning or something.
I have been with them for over 2 years, and I only had one chargeback. I wrote about it here in the forums, at the time. It was one of my clients not recognising Paysystems on his statement so he did a chargeback. When I explained it to him, he reversed the chargeback. I sent all the documentation to Paysystems showing my client admitting he was in the wrong, and that he reversed the chargeback.
I have also sent numerous emails to Paysystems, with no reply.
Oh, for what it's worth. I had two accounts (one in Canadian and one in US) and they canceled both.
Karen
Maybe it's time for a Merchant account.
Pssssst, (Whispering) you need a merchant account? I can get you one (eyes shifting left to right) I know this guy, who knows this guy......
Hey Trans (or anyone)
I was always under the impression that a merchant account does not do recurring billing? Does the client need to log in and pay the invoice every month?
Karen
THey don't automatically do recurring billing, but many third-party software programs can do it for you such as ClientExec (http://www.clientexec.com) (with Authorize.NET).
I didn't want to get a merchant account because unless you've reached about the $2000 / month marker it's not cost effective after all the monthly fees and setup. We're close but many of our clients prefer to pay annually with a company check (mailed in) so our credit card volume is much less than that monthly.
It may be our only choice... I'm going to sign up with 2CO anyway (it's only $50) so maybe I'll at least have it as a backup. Has anyone heard of www.clientbilling.com ? THey're offering an Authorize.NET merchant account and gateway with no setup fees....
Authorize.net will also do the reoccuring for you for a fee per month.
I was about to sign up with them Im glad I found this thread I guess Im off to 2checkout
Well, I'm back online with 2Checkout for the time being. At least 2CO allows customization. The payment page looks just like my site, unlike the ugly Paysystems page. I'm going to evaluate whether we need a merchant account right now or not... we might get one and just use 2CO as a backup.
I use Paysystems wayyy back in 2001 when I was the owner of Dim8.Net and never had a single problemo.
When I first opened VeroHost.com, back in December of 2002. I use 2CO for about a month and than got my own merchant account and I can say that from appearance and what I've seen between those 2 (2CO & PaySystems), Paysystems is much more professional.
But I may be wrong, the last time I used it was back in 2000.
Originally posted by beley:
Has anyone heard of www.clientbilling.com ? THey're offering an Authorize.NET merchant account and gateway with no setup fees....
Owned by the same people as ClientExec and they use the same reseller that ModernAuthorize uses.
Corey Bryant
11-04-03, 04:29 AM
Most gateways (i.e. Linkpoint, Authorizenet.com) will do recurring billing for you - up to six months. That is usually the maximum since Visa/Mastercard do not like anythng more. There are some processors that will set it up annually for you.
fsdigiovanni
11-05-03, 01:13 PM
Thank's Tranz for clearing that up. It's not PaySystems who set the terms but rather the credit card companies. We tolerate a draw back of 1.5% based on your monthly ratio.
As I mentioned in WebmasterArena, at the end of the day, we are a business like anyone else and what keeps a business going is the bottom line and due to our low rates, we cannot absorb chargebacks higher the set ratio.
Our goal at PaySystems is not to charge merchants with high rates and hidden fees so that we can make a quick buck. We would rather charge you one low rate and establish a long term relationship where we can all make money.
Thanks
Frank Di Giovanni
PaySystems
toll free: 866-699-9021 ext. 2107
e-mail: fdigiovanni@paysystems.com
But surely the key to a "long term relationship" involves some good communication between you the company and the subscriber? In this case beley? Im sure you can agree that cancelling his account without telling him or even trying to contact him (as far as im aware from my POV) isn't the best way to go about this.
Do you agree Mr Giovanni?
I was contacted, well they sent me an email as they were cancelling the account. Not much of a notice but I guess you can call it contact. There was no negotiation, no room for explanation, no leeway. Seems to me a policy like that is more harmful to customer relationships than helpful to the bottom line.
In my case I had one chargeback that I tried to dispute but got no help from PaySystems. Regardless, with a slow month, even 1 chargeback can create an odd percentage ratio - they should have considered the other 5 months without a single chargeback.
Oh well, it's over now. I'll never use or reccommend PaySystems again, so much for customer service. It's okay though, lesson learned.
That's not much contact. You would think that with just 1 chargeback, they would issue a warning.
Well, a full fledged merchant account is no better... you have to worry about the same ratio.
We have found that by calling all our orders, we have all but stopped our fraud orders wich gives us a near zero charge back rating for the year.
I know yours was a customer cancling, and that happens too. It's just one of those things you have to work around when dealing with customers you never see in person.
Best of luck with your new solution.
Tim L
fsdigiovanni
11-06-03, 11:22 AM
I absolutely agree with you Adam. This type of behavior should not be tolerated. Customer service is a key factor in any business.
Let me clarify how PaySystems works.
In the case of a chargeback, the credit card companies recognize Paysystems as having the chargeback and not the merchant. Reason being is that, we process all transactions through our bank account and we are liable for all negative transactions. This means that any merchant can process with PaySystems and if for any reason they get cut off or decide to close their business, they can then start processing with someone else in no time with no bad credit history.
The same way that we evaluate a merchant's monthly transaction ratio, the CC companies evaluate PaySystems monthly transaction ratio and if PaySystems has negative ratio, it is we who get cut off from the CC companies.
You have to understand the whole idea behind 3rd party processing. The merchants we deal with are merchants who cannot get a merchant account, who are considered high risk, who are looking for a one stop shop as far as gateways & shopping carts etc. These are merchants who would not be in business if not for us. And some merchants who had a merchant account & claimed they were paying the lowest rates, were surprised when we showed them that they were getting charged with extra fees for non & mid-qualified CC cards and a monthly fee which they were not aware. And guess what, all business, corporate and international credit cards are considered non & mid qualified. Discovery and Amex have their own rates. We on the other hand charge 1 flat rate for all cards.
We have been hit hard with merchants who process $200,000/month and having PaySystems pay them on a weekly basis and then close up shop while we get stuck with all the chargebacks.
The values & principles of PaySystems are relevant to the business that we are dealing with. This is the internet where business is done over the phone & internet, not in person. PaySystems goes on a limb by settling our merchants on a weekly basis as opposed to our competition who will keep your money and wait for the CC companies to settle them & then settle the merchant once a month or twice if lucky. Now during this time that they have your money, they really don't care if you close your business because they know that they will cover the chargebacks with your money.
Now, I'm not going to claim that PaySystems is flawless, and we know that anyone who does so is bu#!*@ting. All I can do is let anyone who needs a processor or is looking for better rates, to call me and I will give you a quote and the best service I can
Feel free to call me.
p.s. Brandon (Beley), although I was not responsible for your account, I want to wish you good luck and continued success.
Regards,
Frank DiGiovanni
PaySystems
toll free: 866-699-9021 ext.2107
e-mail: fdigiovanni@paysystems.com
Frank may i thank you for such an honest and informative post. Im sure it will be read and appreciated by many. While what happened to Brandon wasn't very nice at all or good business conduct (imo) im glad to see you admit mistakes and explain them as well as stay honest without bull****ting yourself. I have no words to describe that post apart from honest and if only every staff member from within your company was like you then maybe PaySystems would be on the road to a more prosperous future.
Aussie Bob
11-07-03, 08:59 PM
fsdigiovanni, how is the chargeback % rate that leads to Paysystems cancelling a client's account, calculated?
To date, we have processed just under 10,000 transactions through Paysystems and have 5 chargebacks over that time. We're doing 800+ recurring transactions a mth now and hearing of Paysystems closing down accounts is making me a tad nervous. :eek:
Originally posted by Aussie Bob:
fsdigiovanni, how is the chargeback % rate that leads to Paysystems cancelling a client's account, calculated?
To date, we have processed just under 10,000 transactions through Paysystems and have 5 chargebacks over that time. We're doing 800+ recurring transactions a mth now and hearing of Paysystems closing down accounts is making me a tad nervous. :eek:
:offtopic:
Good to see you here Bob :D
Aussie Bob
11-07-03, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by _Dana_:
:offtopic:
Good to see you here Bob :D
Oh great :D drag me back to this thread for a friendly wave. :wave:
fsdigiovanni
11-10-03, 09:25 AM
Hi Dana,
The transaction rate is calculated as so:
We take the $$ volume of chargebacks/month and devide it by the $$ volume of transactions/month. It has absolutely nothing to do with how many transactions & chargebacks that you do.
To get an accurate evaluation of you account you should get in contact with your account rep. or you can call merchant support @ 1-866-699-9023.
Dana, here at PaySystems we encourage a fair and clear return policy on behalf of the merchant for such a reason that chargebacks not only affect the merchant but also PaySystems, as we are the master aggregator account. We also offer assistance in setting up a proper return policy which would be in the merchant's best interest.
Regards,
Frank DiGiovanni
PaySystems
Toll Free: 866-699-9021
E-Mail: fdigiovanni@paysystems.com
Mr. DiGiovanni,
I appreciate your comments about Paysystems, and how the service works.
However, when Internet merchants have a fair and clear return policy and a client proceeds to do a chargeback anyway, the merchant's policy doesn't mean anything.
Several hosting merchants, for example, have a 30 day money back policy that is stated clear on the merchants web site. In addition, most hosting merchants have their order form set up so that the client HAS to agree to the policy when ordering the service. Then 2 months later the client changes their mind to cancel the hosting service. The client contacts the hosting company to request the cancelation and a refund. The client is told that they have exceeded the 30 day policy so no refund is permitted. The client then does a chargeback, and the merchant is out the money becuase hosting merchants can not win a chargeback.
The worst cases are when a client completely violates the terms of service, or breaks the law (IE a child porn site), and then does a chargeback.
The merchant has no protection against these situations because the credit card companies take a clients word over the merchant. When when the merchant provides all the documentation it doesn't make much of a difference.
I firmly believe that with the Internet, and e-commerce services, that the chargeback rules need to be re-evaluated. Several merchants have been burned due to these circumstances, and then a chargeback (that they can't win anyway) only pours salt onto the wound.
Best regards,
Karen
culleyharrelson
11-29-03, 06:48 AM
Originally posted by net-trend:
2checkout is HEAPS better than Paysystems IMHO.
I know I am jumping in late here but I wanted to mention that 2CO has been hit by repeated DDOS attacks over the last 6 weeks or so. For instance they were hit Thanksgiving night have their services have been on and off since then (2 days ago). Fun, fun!
We are considering paysystems as a backup.
culley
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