Developing my own script - need your input

[TowerHost.com]

Well I'm tired of other scripts that don't meet my needs (such as phpManager). I can develop my own script so I've decided it is time.

The thing is I can develop it either ASP and MSSQL or PHP and MySQL. Which one do you think I should go for? I like the PHP and MySQL option but for marketing options I think it would do better in ASP as ModernBill already exists (PHP) although competition is always healthy :D

Here are the main things my script will do:
- Support System (trouble tickets)
- Billing Tracking (Paysystems, Paypal - suggest others?)
- Provide a real "members" area where members can purchase upgrades to their accounts such as dedicated IP's, upgrade plans or request other services.
- Intergrate into vBulletin forums (one login gets you everything)
*Main reason for developing in PHP

When?
Don't expect it next week! This script will be developed over time because you can't rush a good thing and I don't have time to put everything into it right now.

Cost?
Total hours will be factored in as well as overal product and features and other products currently providing similar services.
*Large* discounts to hosts providing licensing to resellers

Where?
Site to be annouced with a mailing list to keep everyone updated on progress and provide testing before launch.

What I need?
Feedback!
I want this to be the vBulletin or Billing/Support/Client Management scripts! I need your suggestions of what you think it should include, what it shouldn't have, etc.

Well I know this isn't much right now but give me some time, coffee and a plan and this will really be something worth having.

Looking forward to hearing from you guys.

PS: I've only posted this on this forum since I like it so much :D

Steve

[beley]

Okay, after reading your post twice, I think I have some advice to get started...

First, about the PHP/ASP decision. If you develop this in ASP/MSSQL you will severly limit your client base as most small hosts (and new hosts) are going to be hosting (and therefore using) the Linux platform (and thus PHP/MySQL) - I definately think you should go PHP/MySQL.

Now, I think the VBulletin integration is a great idea and will give you a great feature no other system has... definately develop that!

About the billing integration. I think you should have Paysystems, 2Checkout, Paypal and other 3rd party processors but you should also consider integrating direct merchant accounts because as a host grows they will want to switch to a real merchant account for cost reasons.

That's all I've got right now, but I will track this project and let you know my opinions as it develops! Great idea! :D

[Saeed]

I would also suggest you do it in PHP/MySQL. I hope you realize the size of this project and also that the competition is very tough with ÜberSmitch, ModernBill, PHPManager, PerlBill and WHNBilling in the market. You have to build this software with quality, speed and reliability in mind if you want to have a chance.

Anyways, good luck.

[TowerHost.com]

Thank you for the input guys. I will go for PHP and MySQL.
Being a web developer I understand this will take time, that is why I didn't give it an absolute release date.

Althought I have already developed member area based scripts using Access Databases and MySQL for both ASP and PHP. So this isn't that much different, just add in a few extra features and it will do what I want. I have already made a script that intergrates into vBulletin as well.

At first this script was needed for my own business, but I'm sure many others would like another option for the current scripts available.

PerlBill is well.. in Perl. Who develops anything in Perl anymore anyway? ModernBill is very expensive and makes only used for high end large companies that don't have the time to develop their own solution. PHPmanager is very clumbsy to use (I use it now) and is missing a ton of features and can't be customized, as for UberSmith and WHNBilling I haven't tried but I'll look into them.
I like the features of PerlBill but I hate the fact that it's in Perl. I also noticed their support is extremely SLOW.


My goal is to make this script one of the best things I've ever developed and to provide real support for it as well. All I need is some time and possible funding to make it a success.

[Saeed]

Althought I have already developed member area based scripts using Access Databases and MySQL for both ASP and PHP. So this isn't that much different, just add in a few extra features and it will do what I want.
I'm a developer myself as well. I've worked with companies like Hewlette-Packard, Exodus.net and Internet.com. I'm sure you don't mean what it sounds like with "just a few extra features". A member area based website is extremely simple, but when it comes to having admins, multiple level techs, users, helpdesk, billing, support for Cpanel, Plesk, Ensim, domain registrars, 3rd party CC processors, gateways, etc, etc, etc., it gets a little more advanced and extremely time consuming. I'm not saying that you cannot do it, not at all. I just know from my own experience that when I look at projects smaller than they really are, I lose interest halfway through. Just don't want that to happen to you.

[TowerHost.com]

Saeed excellent point :)

Although I'm not going to put tons of features in it right away. I'll add them along the way. Support for Plesk, Ensim and Cpanel? Well if you mean automated account creation that's one of the things that's way down my list :)

I totally agree it's going to be a big project, everything I touch seems to be but it's something I need for my own business and if it turns out decent I'm sure others will be interested.

I appreciate the heads up though and if you're interested in putting in more input or lending a hand with some coding, I'd be more than happy.

Cheers

[beley]

Well if you mean automated account creation that's one of the things that's way down my list.You know, I didn't even think of this but it's a really big issue. Without this you're right back to creating every single account manually, which takes a good bit of time. Even my homemade script automatically creates accounts (with WHM/Cpanel)...

I'm sure you could include that, even if only for one control panel software to start with (WHM/Cpanel hopefully :D )

[TowerHost.com]

Brandon,

Very true, as time constraints are one of web hosting biggest issues I see your point. I'll check it out further, I would use Cpanel first as well because that is what we use for our services.

[TowerHost.com]

I've been seriously checking out other billing systems and it seems for myself to get in the game now would be VERY difficult.

I like the idea of my own system but after checking out all the endless features of ModernBill it seems I would be foolish to try to create something that would basically do the same thing but have far less features and testing under the belt.

Their price for the software is high but so is the quality. For these reasons I've decided to get ModernBill soon as they include Paysystems :)

I'm still interested in doing customizations for people if they're interested.

[Saeed]

ModernBill would be my 2nd choice. ÜberSmith is #1.

[TowerHost.com]

Saeed could you explain your choice of UberSmith over ModernBill?
Functionality? Price? Features?

[Saeed]

It depends on your needs I guess, but here (http://www.ubersmith.com/20mig.php) a list of new features added in v2.0. I've heard they're working on adding more neat features. It's best to have a real gateway though with both ÜberSmith and ModernBill.

[TowerHost.com]

Has anyone checked out ClientExec?
It looks like a nice script but hasn't been released yet, I can't wait to test it.

Still thinking of making my own :)

[HTTPeasy]

Try WHM/cPanel AutoPilot (http://whmautopilot.com) .

Great software, great price.

[interactive]

Hello,
Perl is still very alive and well just so you know. I'd stick with php/mysql cause then you can still run it on windows boxes. Good luck

[CompCity]

Just thought I'd mention that I agree that PHP/MySQL would be your best bet for reaching a bigger target market, but also keep in mind that many mission critical web sites (the big boys) run on Windows machines (certainly not for stability reasons), and are willing to pay a LOT more money then your average smaller host. So it really depends on what you want. Larger companies are going to take good marketing skills, but will may a lot more, whereas smaller companies won't be willing to spend a lot, but will attract a larger audience.

Furthermore, I noticed a few things that I wanted to make note of:


If you develop this in ASP/MSSQL you will severly limit your client base as most small hosts (and new hosts) are going to be hosting (and therefore using) the Linux platform (and thus PHP/MySQL) - I definately think you should go PHP/MySQL.


SUN ChiliSoft ASP is quite funtional and affordable as well as available for Linux and quite a few other platforms, and is quite affordable.


Who develops anything in Perl anymore anyway?


Perl is still number one. It's installed on more servers then any other web programming language. Keep in mind, PHP programmers are quickly becoming a dime a dozen, which still isn't the case of Perl.

[interactive]

Originally posted by CompCity
Just thought I'd mention that I agree that PHP/MySQL would be your best bet for reaching a bigger target market, but also keep in mind that many mission critical web sites (the big boys) run on Windows machines (certainly not for stability reasons), and are willing to pay a LOT more money then your average smaller host. So it really depends on what you want. Larger companies are going to take good marketing skills, but will may a lot more, whereas smaller companies won't be willing to spend a lot, but will attract a larger audience.

Furthermore, I noticed a few things that I wanted to make note of:



SUN ChiliSoft ASP is quite funtional and affordable as well as available for Linux and quite a few other platforms, and is quite affordable.



Perl is still number one. It's installed on more servers then any other web programming language. Keep in mind, PHP programmers are quickly becoming a dime a dozen, which still isn't the case of Perl.

I've been programming ASP for about 3.5 years, and I can tell you chilisoft asp is much different, and really does not run the same. If you're going to run asp on *nux (chilisoft) you might as well switch over to PHP. Thre are alot of PHP programmers I agree with you there, but most of them are average joes who can make say a db extraction layer, and create a array or something. I also agree that perl is still number one, and will be for quite a while. I don't know why people say that php and perl are exactly the same, far from true in my opinion, everything from the syntax to the libs is different. I don't personally program perl just cause it was never something I had time to mess with, but it is extremly stable and popular

[CompCity]

I've never used Chilisoft, so I was making an assumption (probably should have read the docs). I agree that the majority of PHP developers don't have a clue, but it sure makes it difficult to get work when you try to beat those that write crappy code, and charge $2.00/hour to do so. That's why I'm learning JSP, a very popular standarized language, and I won't have to deal with the "kiddie" programmers.

[TowerHost.com]

Some good points made here - about the PHP kiddies, I think there will always be a good market for PHP sites. Will a business approach a 15 year and and ask them to make there e-commerce site? I highly doubt it, especially if they value their own necks!

So it's relative to your clients and what you can offer, the whole package, not just your code.

I am also interested in ASP.net but that is platform independant. I guess it depends on which platform you choose to support and weight the pros and cons of each. Many businesses prefer to use ASP just because they know Windows and woudn't think something free could be as good.

In the end it's not a matter of language but a matter of platform, no matter how open source or whatever they say it is, it will work better on a certain OS.

I've picked up a copy of ClientExec and I must say it's fantastic. Alberto is a master of PHP! He's extremely organized and it shows, everything is in nice neat folders and has naming convensions, etc. Way to go Alberto :D

I am still interested in doing my own custom app but with the time I have it's just not and option right now.

Few features missing that I would like to see in ClientExec but overall it's exactly what I wanted.

[interactive]

Originally posted by CompCity
I've never used Chilisoft, so I was making an assumption (probably should have read the docs). I agree that the majority of PHP developers don't have a clue, but it sure makes it difficult to get work when you try to beat those that write crappy code, and charge $2.00/hour to do so. That's why I'm learning JSP, a very popular standarized language, and I won't have to deal with the "kiddie" programmers.

I agree. I love java. I took it last semester (sp, brain fade), and Loved it. We never really got into JSP, but I've always wondered about it. Maybe it's something I'll hit in the future. The thing with php and why it is so popular is because of the simplicity, along with that you bring alot of idiotic kiddie coders. I have nothiing against someone trying to earn a legit buck, no matter how old or how young. But waht pisses me off is the lame coders who will go bid on a job the cheapest they can just so they get the job, then when it comes time to code they have no idea. Just my rant for the day..

[Alex[nl]]

Regarding JSP I can add I've worked for a software company that reprogrammed some of their software for 'online' use and chose JSP instead of PHP because of the more advanced abilities (+ if I am not mistaken it looks a lot like Visual Basic ?)... I am not a programmer myself so I have not realy an insight in why they did it exactly but it had something to do with the userlevel management (and maybe also the workload on the server). Fact that it can work with (inhouse programmed) DLL's was a major pro aswell I think. I suddenly aslo remember we ran Windows (web-)servers, so that would be an point aswell ...

Hope this contains some usefull info ;)

[rusko]

php is the most expressive RAD language there is, nothing beats the speed of development that comes with it. unfortunately, the weak typing, the flexibility, the poorly documented ever changing features and the fact that it's a scripting language make it hard to debug (much easier than perl though, perl is next to impossible afaik) and maintain. jsp is appropriate for enterprise-level applications as it adds a layer of complexity as well as requires you to implement a lot of features that are readily available in php.

<disclaimer> imho</disclaimer>

paul

[TowerHost.com]

Just an update - developing interface for my script and it's looking sharp :D
I'm developing it privately for my own company and will decide later on if I might make it commercial or keep it private. Have to see how it comes along and if other people request it!

I'll keep you guys posted on my progress!

[TowerHost.com]

P.S. - I'm designing a Cpanel interface with it so it might just be all intergrated into a SUPER Cpanel Theme, I'll see how it goes - if I run into big snags then I'll ditch the Cpanel intergration theme idea.

Cheers

[Homeiss]

Will it have a standalone theme as well for theose who don't use CPanel or just don't want to integrate it?

[TowerHost.com]

Yes I want to make the themes standalone and template based for easy modifications.
I will make a seperate theme for Cpanel - they will not be directly intergrated, there are just to many issues like having multiple Cpanel servers and trying to intergrate them. I would like to keep my options open for auto account creation but that will be later on.

[TowerHost.com]

Just a FYI - this is active again.

The database has been developed and I've started figuring out the recurring billing before I go to far.