Customer Does Not Pay..What to do? HHO member

[xgravity]

The story is as follows:

Ex-Angelnetworkz customer asks us to "spot" him a month to get his funds back in order after losing money to them. We said sure to help him out.

The server he got from us was $175/month.

The month went by and he said he didnt have the money because his wife took all of his money out of the bank and gave it to her mother.

He said he would have it by the next week. 2 weeks go by and after many attempts at contacting him, no reply.

He goes by the username on this message board as: drmike

and his website is www.theapparatus.net

I did not want it to come to posting on a public forum but maybe he will see this post and read it...possibly respond to our emails...

I suggest that any other hosts out there do not do any business with this person so you do not end up in the same situation we did.

So much for being nice to someone and try to help them out in their time of need.

[Chicken]

Originally posted by xgravity:

...customer asks us to "spot" him a month to get his funds back in order after losing money to them. We said sure to help him out.

The server he got from us was $175/month.
I realize you're trying to be nice and help someone out, however I strongly urge people not to "spot" customers unless you are fully willing to forego that month of service.

I assume that you've cut the server off, if not, that needs to be done ASAP and although you can try to collect the past month, it is unlikely that you'll eve see it. Write the usage off (your costs, not what you charged him) as a loss come tax time, and move on.

[xgravity]

Well, we never do this. It was just that we sympathized with all the customers of AN and decided "lets give him a chance to get his money." The server had been off but I still do not like the fact that someone makes a promise and fails to keep it.

Anyways, thanks for replying.

[Tropical Tundra]

I agree with chicken take it as a learning experience and never spot a customers no matter what. That is one of the reasons I don't' have a rental properties anymore. The sob stories especially at Christmas time (If I pay you rent I can't buy xmas gift for my kid) is tough to take and be cold and say sorry rent is due now and I can't let it slide. Same applies to any business since you're running a business you can't be nice. Cold but true.

[country-tyme]

Chicken is right. If you offer billing by invoice and the terms are 15 days, or 30 dys, then a 2-3 day grace period is in order. After that, the account should be suspended. I have learned that if you are too nice to people, when it comes to spotting them, they might pay up the small amounts, but eventually they hit you for a larger amount and you never see them again.

Write it off and file it as a learning experience. Once bit, twice shy!!

[Adam]

Fair play for at least being sympathetic and spotting him a month, just a shame it didn't work out this time. Good luck with the recovering of the funds.

[linux-tech]

The fact that the user is an HHO member really doesn't mean a thing here, trying to discredit a member only makes yourself look bad.

Common sense would tell you what to do in this case, which is to shut the server off. While I would (personally) have never gotten into the situation, like others have said, if you're not prepared to lose the whole thing, don't do it.


I did not want it to come to posting on a public forum but maybe he will see this post and read it...possibly respond to our emails...


The deliberate posting of this in a posting forums, taking what is a private matter public, well, that doesn't say anything good for your company at all. There's a difference between posting about fraudulent customers and customers that haven't paid you, for whatever reason. By discrediting the custome, you just gave them the right to move to another corporation, if they hadn't already, and were I them, I would have done so quickly.

Best policies:
ALWAYS require cash up front for services, otherwise you run a very strong likelihood you'll get screwed. I actually got into this with a customer this weekend. Their billing offices were "closed", said I'd receive paypal Monday for an hour's worth of work. Customer's problem got solved, I said send it Monday. Yesterday he contacted me again, with another problem, at which time I informed him that he currently owed me money and no further services would be rendered until such time as I received it. I was willing (more than) to write off the $30 for an hour of my time, but I'm not go ing to continue to work with an individual that still hasn't paid. The same applies here, at some point you just shut the thing off.

[xgravity]

Before you go accusing my company of anything, you need to get the facts straight.

We did shut the server off.

We were mentioning how the customer did not pay. Losing the money was not so much the big deal. It was the fact that we were trying to help someone out and a promise was broken.

I do not care if I used the members name and I do not care if you look down on my company. I was just posting to get some informative feedback which you failed to provide.

Thank you.

[linux-tech]

Before you go accusing my company of anything, you need to get the facts straight.

back up here a second, I didn't accuse anyone of anything. You did.


I was just posting to get some informative feedback which you failed to provide.

JUST because you don't like the feedback does not make it any less informative. It makes it feedback you don't like, but not "uninformative feedback" as you put it.

I didn't say you didn't shut the guy's server off. Great, I'm glad you did. Next time, you need to act a little more professional though and leave private matters outside of the forums. Billing is one of those areas that you don't take up on forums unless absolutely, 1000000% necessary. In this case it's not so.

Admittedly, the guy was in the wrong. However, you were just as much in the wrong by posting private information in a public forum, which deters individuals from dealing with you on a professional level. Think, before you post. How would YOU react if the same situation came up and you were on the other end?

There's always two sides to every story, by posting here, taking the attacking nature you have on someone, you've made yourself look bad. The statement of "I don't care how I look to you" really says it all right there. I, as well as everyone browsing here am a potential customer to you. To take the attitude of "I don't care", well, that speaks utter professionalism right there ehh.

You brought up the fact that you hoped he'd respond here, which is one of the reasons you posted here. Again, far from professional, and by even posting here you pretty much ensured that he wouldn't post in this thread.

Like I said, there's always 2 sides to every story. The verdict is out until I hear/see the other side.

[doctor]

You brought up the fact that you hoped he'd respond here, which is one of the reasons you posted here. Again, far from professional, and by even posting here you pretty much ensured that he wouldn't post in this thread.

Like I said, there's always 2 sides to every story. The verdict is out until I hear/see the other side.

There is nothing un-professional about alerting the peer group to this potential hazzard. In fact we have at least three major credit bureaus that are protected by the federal government to do nothing more than that with the possible addition of producing incessant junk mail.

This is the perfect forum for the "other side" to emerge. It is curious that the other side has not made any appearance.

How is it acceptable for a host to advertise (free) to lure customers to a server that is not even paid for and not be acceptable to make that known to potential marks.

My guess is that it would be perfectly fine for the other principal to appear and say it was all a mistake. I have paid the bill and my customers are at no risk due to this issue.

[GordonH]

Hello

In my experience if someone asks you for a few days grace, 9 times out of 10 they want it to copy all thier data and move to another host.

Perhaps I am old and bitter and twisted, but once a few people have taken advantage of your good nature you will feel the same!

[Toolz]

Customer Does Not Pay..What to do? HHO member
Do you remember the darleks?

[tranz]

Easy kids... All's fair in love and war.. Can't we all just get along? :)

[linux-tech]

Hello
In my experience if someone asks you for a few days grace, 9 times out of 10 they want it to copy all thier data and move to another host.

Actually, not always. It generally depends on the customer, how long the customer has been with you and if they've had problems in the past.

If the customer's just starting out with you (ie: hasn't finished their first month) nd asks for time to pay the account, then you know for damn sure there's something wrong, and it should be addressed. However, if, that same customer is an outstanding customer, has been with your company for over a year, why does it mean that they're getting ready to move their data? It could very well mean what the customer said " I'll get it to you on xxx date".

[ldcdc]

Think, before you post. How would YOU react if the same situation came up and you were on the other end?If the host (xgravity) is indeed right, then the supposedly honest customer could very well come here and say "I'm sorry. You are right. It was my mistake and I will pay you right now." or "For some reason I haven't received your emails. I forgot about the payment and I'm sorry about that. I will send you the money right now."

Sure, there are two sides of the story, but the customer can defend himself, just like a host that receives an undeserved bad review.

There is nothing un-professional about alerting the peer group to this potential hazzard. I agree.

[xgravity]

My post has nothing to do with professionalism. I am just stating our experience. I did not degrade the customer with any foul language of the sort nor did I say he was a "bad" person.

I simply asked for opinions and due to the fact that he was not answering any of our emails or messages over the instant messaging program he uses made us wonder why he was not doing so.

He kept posting here in HHO after the numerous attempts by us to contact him so I decided to post here in hopes that he would respond to it. Turns out he did not.

Of course there are two sides to the story, but being that nobody here knows the "actual" story and being that we have no reason to lie, why is it so hard to believe what we are saying?

Since we did not get the money, we also were warning other businesses to be wary of doing business with this person because they might find themselves in the same situation as we were in.

In addition, if the person chooses not to respond here (which he most likely will not), you will not hear his side of it. I can give you more details that he told us regarding his personal life and why he couldn't pay when the bill was due at the time but we will not as it is not our place to.

If you anybody regards this as being unprofessional, then as the saying goes, "to each his own". I will no longer reply to this thread unless the former client replies to it.

Have a nice day.

[Adam]

This is a forum, it's meant to be exchanging information on each other and people, as well as the actual business issues etc. I don't see nothing wrong in this post, it's just informative to the rest of the hosts on this board.

[markblair]

I too agree with xgravity on this one. I only know as much as the rest of us about this situation based on this thread. But due to the fact that the person this was about didn't come and at the very least defend himself, that pretty much sums up what xgravity is saying. Posts like this don't always look good for either party. But that's usually only when both are involved in the thread and going back and forth about the topic. Again, just thought that xgravity was justified in posting this.

[nsusa]

I had to suspend an account of a long time customer not too long ago. He just did not pay his bills and also wanted me to do more web design work. After doing him one favor he promised to send a check and failed to do it. I pulled the plug. Felt sorry in one way but on the other side - I had almost $500 invoiced. Needless to say - he paid within one day.

I never had to do suspend an account before and do not want to do it again. But I think I learned a little bit from the situation. Not everyone is your friend - especially not when doing business ....

Christoph

[Website Rob]

My post has nothing to do with professionalism. I am just stating our experience.

Actually, your post has everything to do with Professionalism. Most companies don't post their bad Business decisions. And your experience "is" a bad Business decision. No one to blame but your yourself. They approached you and you accepted their terms -- something for nothing with a promise of future payment. Although we've all probably been burned and taken (trying to help someone having money problems) the fact is, you don't lend money without knowing beforehand, that you may never get it back. Why do you think payment is always up front for any Hosting services?

It's obvious that, with the Server now turned off, the person probably feels they no longer have any reason to contact you. It would seem that in their mind and from what you've posted on your results to contact them, they are not going to owe up to their side of the bargain and do not want to drag it on with any further communication.


Regardless of a Business and/or Personal decision, we all make mistakes. If we learn and move on, then at least we gain "something" from the experience. I understand your pain & logic though. This person probably made reference to HHO and how you two may know each other. Now that you've been burned you're coming back to what you believe, is where the problem started. And BTW, what makes anyone think the person knows about this thread, in order for them to give "their" side of the story?

Although your experience has left you with a bad taste, hopefully, it will not sour you on helping others in the future nor have a bad reflection on HHO. I think it's safe to say, there are no Angels here. For the most part, we are good people communicating & sharing with other good people. Trying to make as few mistakes as possible. :D

[pathiggins]

My policy has been to bill run the billing batch on the day their current hosting period is due, and then if it declines, I suspend the account, and email them an invoice.

If they ignore my suspended accoujnt page and dont pay the invoice by Friday of that week, at 4 pm I start cancelling accounts and removing them from our servers.

I know that is hard and cold, but they get what they pay for. We offer monthly, quarterly, semi annual and yearly billing options.

Now if the cc is declined since it expired, or the billing address does not match, I will take the time to phone them and get the new information.

Patrick Higgins
buycheaperwebhosting.com
lowerdomainrates.com

[xAngelx]

Old thread but this just pisses me off so much I want to make a few things clear:

#1 drmike did not have a server with us, simply a small reseller account. The sites went down when we moved to a new server that turned out to be broken and we had to get another server set up instead.

#2 drmike did NOT lose a dime with us. Matter of fact his last 6 months or so hosting with us we gave him for free because....

#3 We fell for the same sort of crap he fed the thread starter. He gave me a sob story about being in the hospital with cancer and couldn't work and it was taking forever to get disability. So because he'd been with us a long time and had previously paid his bills on time (more or less) I felt sorry for him and told him not to worry about payment till he got better and got back on his feet.

When I realised he'd left our service I assumed he just got ticked and moved with the downtime. Little did I know (until now) what a load of BS he's been feeding people, including us all this time. He never had a server here, when he signed up it was under the guise of a temp thing and he'd get a server soon, but he never did. Only had a few domains hosted on his reseller account and half that time we never asked him to pay for it because we thought he was sick and in the hospital.

[GordonH]

When we have someone claiming to just need a few days to make payment we give them a few days.
Nine times out of ten they use that time to grab thir files and move to another host.
It makes me very angry when people take advantage of my good nature.

[ldcdc]

It's the second time I "hear" you reporting this kind of behavior Gordon. I suppose it really gets to you. ;)

[GordonH]

Its fair to say thatI am losing the will to host.

Its just a small minority of customers, but of course I rarely see all the nice customers.
Only the problem ones get reffered to me these days.

I really think I need to emply someone to deal with these sort of incidents as its to wearing for me doing it week after week.

[xAngelx]

Know the feeling Gordon. But I just put a simple policy into effect and do not make any exceptions anymore. Basic rule is... it they haven't paid within 3 days after their due date their account/server is suspended till they do pay.

If they haven't paid in a week after their due date we send them a warning that they have one more week to pay before we cancel their account and delete everything.

Suffice it to say clients now all pay on time. Took them a little to get used to but in the end it's meant less headaches for us.

[GordonH]

I agree, and that is the policy, but there is always some sob story.
Its usually monthly paying customers whose card stops working.
If we give them a few days more they use it to change host.

ANyway, I will keep taking the tablets and try not to take it personally.

[Brian S]

Little did I know (until now) what a load of BS he's been feeding peopleWait a sec...Does this mean he may actually not be a "Doctor"? :yikes:

[xAngelx]

Nobody even thought he was a doctor, that's just a nickname he picked up at some point. I was referring to his lies to us about having cancer and being in the hospital awaiting disability and his lies to the thread starter and a few others I've since talked to about him.

[Brian S]

Nobody even thought he was a doctor, that's just a nickname he picked up at some point. I was referring to his lies to us about having cancer and being in the hospital awaiting disability and his lies to the thread starter and a few others I've since talked to about him.Yes, I know. It was my sad attempt at humor. :)

[tecknoh]

Unfortunately in the world of business, you cannot hand out freebies to "help" someone out. I would have first been flagged by the fact that a "successful" website would need a month of free hosting. Obviously his online business was making him no income, and thats why the client was in need of free hosting.

I know it's not what you want to hear, but, maybe marking it up to a learning experience and moving on is the best thing to do. Also, the clients url is still active, I would have suspended the account a while ago :)

[NSCNAP Jeff]

Its amazing how quickly folks go from not having any money to being able to payoff thousands in back invoices ;)

[drmike]

For the record, the Doctorate is in Mathematics.

As to xGravity's post, as someone else did mention, you're not hearing both sides of the story. While I am very grateful for what they did for us, we had a very poor experience with them. Support tickets would go days without being answered and then they would be answered incorrectly. For example we asked their support how to block an IP who was spamming us. Their solution was to go into our box and install a couple of RBLs. This was done on tope of the RBLs that we were already using. They also used an RBL that had gone off line and was kicking out positives for everything in an attempt to get people to stop using their list. We had no email for three days thanks to their mistake. They never did actually answer that ticket even when I followed up on it pointing out the difference in what I asked for and how they answered.

Their bill changed a few times as well. I was first quoted a month sum of $145, then it went to $170, and then to $175. They were in shock when I called them on it and denyed changing the fee, even when I copied and pasted back emails. And then he wanted another month on top of that one.

Their firewall that they installed never worked either.

Due to issues like this and slow speeds, we went elsewhere.

My wife and I were having issues at the time. She took off with the money and moved back in with her mother. (Aren't mother in laws fun?) When I went to pay on the box, they had already pulled it even though I had given them a specific date and tried to pay it on that day.

-drmike

[LMSservers]

You need to have a custom standard for all clients. Every excuse will be an emergency. Suspend sites that are not paying until they get the funds. More than a month suspended, I shut it down.

I also would not bash a client publicly. Not good business practice.