View Full Version : Register a client's dead domain name
Something of a moral/ethical question here.
Had a client that stopped paying a few months ago, a few weeks before their name was due for renewal. I give them those weeks (was on good personal terms, hence the leeway) to come through, but they didn't. I warned twice, then suspended the account on the day the name expired, seeing as how it would stop responding before long anyway.
Long time passes, still no money, I'm guessing they aren't ever paying. Only thing is, now the domain is in Pending Delete. It's a fairly good name, with some resale value, I feel.
Here's the moral/ethical question, do I try and register it for my own use? Would you (as the customer) see this as underhanded, even though all legal and above board? Do you feel they would make waves for you if you were to register the name when it drops? Would you walk away from the name, even if it is pretty good?
I'm torn.
I would have no problems registering it AFTER it was deleted assuming there was no contact from the client.
How soon after, Blue? Let it sit (I doubt it will), or use a grabber service?
If you know the date of deletion grab it then. Otherwise use a grabber service.
Don't those services accept your money even if someone has reserved the domain ahead of you though?
Just check, this is not: "Register a dead client's domain name..."? Sorry... a late night... ;)
Originally posted by blue27:
Don't those services accept your money even if someone has reserved the domain ahead of you though? Yes. It's whomever is faster at the deletion time that gets it. Some systems have a more direct pipeline, and grab the *really* good names before anyone else even sees they're dropped.
This name isn't *that* good, but pretty fair.
"Register a dead client's domain name..."? Order is everything...;)
Funny you should say that...I Googled my name some time ago and found the owner of it had just passed. I eventually grabbed it...felt kind of goulish...grabbed it anyway..
Originally posted by bear:
Originally posted by Toolz:
Just check, this is not: "Register a dead client's domain name..."? Sorry... a late night... ;)
Order is everything...;)
Yeah you've gotta wait 'till they die... ;)
Dixiesys
05-03-04, 08:53 AM
As soon as that baby is back on the "open market" it's fair game, using your access as the reseller of the domain to get it before it's back on the open market would be a little bit of a questionable (ok quite questionable) practice but if it's open to re-registration by anyone? Heck yeah snap that baby up.
frattay22
05-05-04, 09:28 PM
I would transfer that domain name into your account and renew it. If you pay 70 bucks for your 800 number and then three months down the line you decide you don't want to pay it anymore. What does the phone company do? They say hmm we will wait etc.... no they say tough and sell it to the next person. WHy do people online think that if they don't pay a bill it is fine?
Well, it turns out it was a moot point. Before I could grab the name, DirectNic did, and placed a portal on it.
He who vacillates it lost.
Chicken
05-09-04, 08:02 AM
Well, for next time, he's my opinion. You did your part in reminding the client about the renewal, he wasn't interested in it anymore (juding by his actions), and once the domain slipped into pending delete (or the day it expired), it was yours.
Now, if you really wanted to be stand up, keep it in the account for the pending period (grace) in case he still wanted it (let them contact you). After this period, it's more than free and clear IMHO.
You don't really get a whole lot of perks in the domain business, and having a bit of inside ability to snag a domain you like that expired and the customer doesn't want seem reasonable to me. No need to let it expire and have the same chance at getting it as others, drop services, etc.
Originally posted by Chicken:
You don't really get a whole lot of perks in the domain business, and having a bit of inside ability to snag a domain you like that expired and the customer doesn't want seem reasonable to me. No need to let it expire and have the same chance at getting it as others, drop services, etc. How would that work. When the domain expires and the registrar places it in hold only the original owner (Admin contact) can renew it. How would I get to it before ever one else?
frattay22
05-25-04, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by doctor:
How would that work. When the domain expires and the registrar places it in hold only the original owner (Admin contact) can renew it. How would I get to it before ever one else?
Pay some money to snap it. And pray that they get it :)
If a client does not pay and it expires and you have it and registered it. He has to pay on the expiration date, the day after it's 100% legal to register and sell the domain, there is nohting they can do about it. They should pay you before i expires and I would just re-register and sell it next time, if they respond 5 days later asking for it say you sold it since you had no reply. The consumer should ALWAYS KNOW the day of expiration,plus emailing him like you said is 100% fair.
Originally posted by Dras:
If a client does not pay and it expires and you have it and registered it. He has to pay on the expiration date, the day after it's 100% legal to register and sell the domain, there is nohting they can do about it. They should pay you before i expires and I would just re-register and sell it next time, if they respond 5 days later asking for it say you sold it since you had no reply. The consumer should ALWAYS KNOW the day of expiration,plus emailing him like you said is 100% fair. When the domain date expires the registrar is required by ICANN to place the domain in redemption hold for 30 days. During that time no one but the admin of record can redeem the registration and it can not be transfered or otherwise 'worked'. After that there is a five day period when it can be redeemed for an additional $150 fee. So I am still at loss as to how one can get a jump on claiming it before the ICANN rules have run and the thing is once again available to a third party.
Since he want manageing the domain he could have gotten it in the 30 day hold peroid.
Originally posted by Dras:
Since he want manageing the domain he could have gotten it in the 30 day hold peroid. The "he" in this case would be the person registered as the "Administrative Contact" at ICANN. That is the sole person allowed to redeem the domain until it is placed on open availability.
Originally posted by doctor:
After that there is a five day period when it can be redeemed for an additional $150 fee. 5 day? Isn't this 30-45 days? As I understand it, it's expired for 30 (approx), redemption for another 30 (approx), and then pending delete for 5-6 (approx).
I think it's the redemption you are referring to?
If not, could you point me to where you read this?
Originally posted by bear:
5 day? Isn't this 30-45 days? As I understand it, it's expired for 30 (approx), redemption for another 30 (approx), and then pending delete for 5-6 (approx).
I think it's the redemption you are referring to?
If not, could you point me to where you read this? You give rise to a good point and that is that I am not a legal interpretor of ICANN rules.
As I am able to understand what is actually the case is that ICANN sets up a 45 day period during which the registrar much get it done. The 30 day/5 day policy seems to be the common procedure used by many registrars. One correction to what I posted earlier is that the redemption fee may be (and in most cases is) charged from day one.
How a specific registrar handles this policy can only be seen by looking to the registrar for clarification.
I don't see any room in the policies and procedure for the domain reseller to gain a renewal advantage. The name is simply unavailable once it is expired until the redemption period runs. In the interim only the Admin Contact can restore (or redeem) the domain name and that by paying the redemption fee which is commonly $150 USD.
Probably the only clear and understandable fact is that a domain owner will pay 10-20 times a normal renewal year fee to redeem an expired domain name. And then only if done within the allotted redemption period.
nameslave
05-28-04, 12:00 PM
Okay ... to clear things up a bit, this is what really happens:
ICANN requires every expired domain name to enter into a 30-day Redemption Grace Period (RGP) before deleting it. Now, at the registry level, registrars actually pay upon expiry for renewal, which however could be refunded if cancelled within 45 days. That is why most registrars (not all though) usually render their own grace period of 30-40 days (but definitely not longer than 45 days) in the hope of getting their clients (the end-user registrants) to renew. It's only after that "unofficial" grace period that registrars trigger the deletion process and shovel expired domains into RGP. During this window, there is an administrative fee for recovery at the registry, and some registrars also add theirs. That is also why it could come up to some $200 - 300. Then comes the final phase when the domain is queued for deletion, which takes 5-6 days depending on registries.
I'm in a hurry, so please excuse my lousy writing. :)
Originally posted by nameslave:
Okay ... to clear things up a bit, this is what really happens:
ICANN requires every expired domain name to enter into a 30-day Redemption Grace Period (RGP) before deleting it. Now, at the registry level, registrars actually pay upon expiry for renewal, which however could be refunded if cancelled within 45 days. ... It's only after that "unofficial" grace period that registrars trigger the deletion process and shovel expired domains into RGP. This post is a bit confusing since the 45 day ICANN period begins running immediately upon the expiration date. It is that date when the registrar pays the renewal and they then have a total of 45 days to seek to redeem the name. All effort to redeem the name must be completed during that period including the 5 day final deletion. The registrars concurrently offer the 30 day redemption period with the attended redemption charge. That is followed by the 5 day period when it can no longer be redeemed just prior to the actual removal from the registry. If in fact the registrar does not get the name redeemed it is then deleted from the registry and the registrar is reimbursed for the unused renewal. There is no 30 then 45 day period.
nameslave
05-29-04, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by doctor:
This post is a bit confusing since the 45 day ICANN period begins running immediately upon the expiration date. It is that date when the registrar pays the renewal and they then have a total of 45 days to seek to redeem the name. All effort to redeem the name must be completed during that period including the 5 day final deletion. The registrars concurrently offer the 30 day redemption period with the attended redemption charge. That is followed by the 5 day period when it can no longer be redeemed just prior to the actual removal from the registry. If in fact the registrar does not get the name redeemed it is then deleted from the registry and the registrar is reimbursed for the unused renewal. There is no 30 then 45 day period.
LOL! Sorry if it confused you, but "there is no 30 then 45 day period", and the RGP required by ICANN lasts EXACTLY 30 calendar days.
Hmm ... I have always wanted to write an FAQ on this. ;)
EDIT: Oh ... by the way, where do you get your ideas from (I mean that "45 day ICANN period")? Just curious.
Originally posted by nameslave:
LOL! Sorry if it confused you I didn't say I was confused. I said your post was a bit confusing.
Originally posted by nameslave: but "there is no 30 then 45 day period" Thought I said that. :)
No real need for a FAQ since the details are spelled out by each registrar. The only real thrust of this thread which is now exhausted is the question posted by the originator. I don't see any opportunity in the processing for the reseller to gain an advantage other than being aware when a domain name is in fact finally deleted and made available to the general public.
What was the domain name?
nameslave
05-29-04, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by doctor:
I didn't say I was confused. I said your post was a bit confusing.
Not meant to be rude, (and I have been withholding to say that) but YOUR posts are confusing indeed. You might want to straighten out the FACTS yourself first before commenting or arguing *as if* you know how things work, since it would only confuse other newbies.
I never said there was a "30 then 45 day period": I suggest you read my hastily written post which nevertheless explained that clearly enough. There is however a "x + 30 + 5" days period where x could be 0 - 45 days. The 45-day refund window starting immediately upon expiry has NOTHING to do with RGP or end-user registrants; it's a registry-registrar level protocol. Therefore, MOST (but not all; Stargate for example is a famous exception) registrars would renew unpaid, expired domains and cancel them only when the end-users (a.k.a. registrants) refuse to pay on say the 30th or 40th days. This registrar-level grace period ("x" days) is OPTIONAL and depends very much on how individual registrars manage their billing, so it could be 0 - 45 days (mostly 30 - 40 days), although few registrars would send an expired domain into RGP right away.
Okay, now when a registrar finally decides to cancel or delete a domain name, here's when RGP comes into effect. For background information regarding RGP (such as rationale), please refer to:
http://www.icann.org/registrars/redemption-proposal-14feb02.htm
ICANN requires registrars to place expired domains under a so-called "Redemption Grace Period" in which registrants are able to recover their domains instead of losing them for good. This registry-level grace period lasts for EXACTLY 30 calendar days.
And after that, expired domains would be queued for deletion. This usually takes 5 more days before they are available for registration again.
I think I REALLY need to write up an FAQ for this thingy. ;)
Originally posted by nameslave: YOUR posts are confusing indeed. You could be right here. I am not posing to instruct anyone. Neither am I a newby (well I guess in terms of posting on your board I am) however, your readers will best determine that.
Thank you for the extensive effort to correct what ever you feel needs clarification. The only real thrust of this thread which is now exhausted is the issue posted by the originator.
For additional reference in case you do post a "FAQ" you may want to look at these references in addition to the one you posted above.
1. Supplemental Discussion Paper:
Redemption Grace Periods for Deleted Names
http://www.icann.org/registrars/redemption-supplement-20feb02.htm
2.Registrar Accreditation Agreement. Particularly section 3.7.5.
http://www.icann.org/registrars/ra-agreement-17may01.htm#3.7.5
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